Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

I'll jump in on this...

Steve Atwater Y
Ronde Barber N
Tony Boselli Y
Isaac Bruce N
LeRoy Butler Y
Don Coryell N
Roger Craig Y - yeah I'm a biased 49ers fan
Brian Dawkins Y
Alan Faneca Y
Torry Holt N
Steve Hutchinson Y
Joe Jacoby Y
Edgerrin James N
Jimmy Johnson N
Ty Law Y
Ray Lewis Y
John Lynch Y
Kevin Mawae Y
Karl Mecklenburg N - If he got in before Gradishar it would compound that injustice
Randy Moss Y
Leslie O’Neal N
Terrell Owens N
Simeon Rice N
Richard Seymour N
Brian Urlacher Y
Everson Walls N - Kind of a head scratcher to me that he made it this far.
Hines Ward Y - I know this has been debated here before but he is definitely one of the greatest WRs of all time on non passing plays

Most of these folks strike me as HoF worthy. Am on the fence with Roger Craig and Jimmy Johnson, no on Everson Walls and Hines Ward and Simeon Rice and Leslie O’Neal. Yes for the rest.

ChrisBabcock: re Mecklenburg, if he gets in am thinking it only helps Gradishar’s argument. I’m pulling for him, but it’ll be a long shot. I think they both belong in.

bachslunch wrote:Most of these folks strike me as HoF worthy. Am on the fence with Roger Craig and Jimmy Johnson, no on Everson Walls and Hines Ward and Simeon Rice and Leslie O’Neal. Yes for the rest.

Fair assement Bachs

HInes Ward should likely get in...but not for the reasons you would want him to (played for a marquee franchise, SB-MVP). I know it's based on theory, but one could only imagine if he had been strictly a pass-catcher ("give me the ball"-prima donna) his entire career - putting up the numbers. He simply loved to block, perhaps more-so than pass-catching, and did a lot of it. Yes, he wasn't the only WR ever to block a lot, but still. He may have very well 'blocked' himself out of Canton; if he ends up not getting in, that is. End of day, he should at least be sure-fire/shoe-in HOVG. I know that there's no 'stats' or 'numbers' for blocking, but I wish the committee would put that (eye test, film study) into consideration with such receivers and also RBs that simply may have blocked too much for their own (Canton) good.

Here's my opinion. I'm no "expert", but I look at players who should be in the HoF as the greatest, best ever, in the history of the game. I don't vote based on, hey this guy should be in case so-and-so is in.

Steve Atwater - NO
Ronde Barber - NO
Tony Boselli - NO
Isaac Bruce - NO
LeRoy Butler - YES
Don Coryell - NO
Roger Craig - NO
Brian Dawkins - YES
Alan Faneca - YES
Torry Holt - NO
Steve Hutchinson - YES
Joe Jacoby - YES/NO coin flip
Edgerrin James - NO
Jimmy Johnson - NO (I have him ahead of Don Coryell, but if you put JJ in, then there's 5+ other coaches who ought to be in ahead of him)
Ty Law - NO
Ray Lewis - YES
John Lynch - NO
Kevin Mawae - YES/NO coin flip
Karl Mecklenburg - YES
Randy Moss - YES
Leslie O’Neal - NO
Terrell Owens - YES
Simeon Rice - NO
Richard Seymour - NO
Brian Urlacher - YES
Everson Walls - NO
Hines Ward - NO

Of the WRs on this list, I think Moss/TO are more deserving than Holt/Bruce/Ward. The latter 3 were great, but not on the same level as Moss/TO, even though neither of Moss/TO won a Super Bowl.

I have Jimmy Johnson ahead of Don Coryell. Johnson won 2 SBs and they were back-to-back. He also had to play under Jerry Jones who has unrealistic sky-high expectations and sometimes, IMO, doesn't know what he's doing.

IMO LeRoy Butler & Brian Dawkins had better careers than Ronde Barber and John Lynch. Barber and Lynch were great but not as good as Dawkins.

74_75_78_79_ wrote:HInes Ward should likely get in...but not for the reasons you would want him to (played for a marquee franchise, SB-MVP). I know it's based on theory, but one could only imagine if he had been strictly a pass-catcher ("give me the ball"-prima donna) his entire career - putting up the numbers. He simply loved to block, perhaps more-so than pass-catching, and did a lot of it. Yes, he wasn't the only WR ever to block a lot, but still. He may have very well 'blocked' himself out of Canton; if he ends up not getting in, that is. End of day, he should at least be sure-fire/shoe-in HOVG. I know that there's no 'stats' or 'numbers' for blocking, but I wish the committee would put that (eye test, film study) into consideration with such receivers and also RBs that simply may have blocked too much for their own (Canton) good.

I continually see people who push hard for Ward and cite blocking as an important component of his HoF argument. Two problems with this:

-no WR — and in fact no TE — is in the HoF for their great blocking skills as far as I know.

-how do we know historically how good a blocker Ward was compared to other WRs anyway? If we believe those pushing his case, he was the greatest blocking WR in NFL history. What’s the truth here?

bachslunch wrote: -how do we know historically how good a blocker Ward was compared to other WRs anyway? If we believe those pushing his case, he was the greatest blocking WR in NFL history. What’s the truth here?

Film study has shown Hines Ward to be the best blocker of all time. If he couldn't catch well, he would have been a guard and would have made John Hannah look like a bum.

bachslunch wrote:

74_75_78_79_ wrote:HInes Ward should likely get in...but not for the reasons you would want him to (played for a marquee franchise, SB-MVP). I know it's based on theory, but one could only imagine if he had been strictly a pass-catcher ("give me the ball"-prima donna) his entire career - putting up the numbers. He simply loved to block, perhaps more-so than pass-catching, and did a lot of it. Yes, he wasn't the only WR ever to block a lot, but still. He may have very well 'blocked' himself out of Canton; if he ends up not getting in, that is. End of day, he should at least be sure-fire/shoe-in HOVG. I know that there's no 'stats' or 'numbers' for blocking, but I wish the committee would put that (eye test, film study) into consideration with such receivers and also RBs that simply may have blocked too much for their own (Canton) good.

I continually see people who push hard for Ward and cite blocking as an important component of his HoF argument. Two problems with this:

-no WR — and in fact no TE — is in the HoF for their great blocking skills as far as I know.

-how do we know historically how good a blocker Ward was compared to other WRs anyway? If we believe those pushing his case, he was the greatest blocking WR in NFL history. What’s the truth here?

I think people in favor of Hines Ward eventually getting in the HOF are citing the blocking as something unusual from typical WR candidates, but it's only one facet of an outstanding career. It's unfortunate we can't quantify blocking stats, but we do have plenty of videotape evidence to show a high degree of success in this area. What is indisputable is the affect Ward had on the game with this attribute. NFL Films talked about this, and when you watched high school and college football during this era, WR blocking became more noticed, with Ward's name often mentioned.

Agree we can't put a skill position in the HOF solely on blocking, that's why we won't see Lorenzo Neal inducted. But Ward does have very impressive numbers, along with a strong postseason history to help his case.

JWL wrote:

bachslunch wrote: -how do we know historically how good a blocker Ward was compared to other WRs anyway? If we believe those pushing his case, he was the greatest blocking WR in NFL history. What’s the truth here?

Film study has shown Hines Ward to be the best blocker of all time. If he couldn't catch well, he would have been a guard and would have made John Hannah look like a bum.

I don't have my irony/sarcasm meter on. Was this meant to be taken at face value?