Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Seems to me that Billy 'White Shoes' Johnson gets for support in media/social media, at least that I see,

It also seems clear to me that their 'paper cases' are to close to only be called as a tie.

Johnson for
Pro Football Hall of Fame 2nd team All-1970s Team
Pro Football Hall of Fame 1st team All-1980s Team


Upchurch
Pro Football Hall of Fame 1st team All-1970s Team
Pro Football Hall of Fame 2nd team All-1980s Team

But Johnson got NFL 75th Anniversary All-Time Team and NFL 100th Anniversary All-Time Team

So, tell me, can you pick one over the other? if so, who?

Great question. I support both, along with Brian Mitchell, Abe Woodson, Mel Gray and maybe others. And I'll note that in the 1946 Revisited project, which is rebuilding the Pro Football Hall of Fame as if it started in 1946 instead of 1963, we elected Shoes in our Class of 2002 and have not yet elected Upchurch:

https://www.notinhalloffame.com/home/ne ... final-vote

I'll add that in 2016 when I argued for an inaugural class of returners, I took Hester plus Mitchell, Woodson, Gray and Upchurch:

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2016/ ... cago-bears

I think I would take Upchurch first, because he was a contributor to a Super Bowl team where all of his returns mattered more. He had a higher yards per PR and a higher yards per KR, and his eight return TDs came on fewer returns, and in fewer games, than Johnson's eight return TDs.

I will note that Upchurch had a truly baffling All-Decade selection: 2nd team 1980s kick returner with ZERO kick returns in the 1980s. How did that happen?

It's very close, and I want them both. But I would take Upchurch first.

readjack wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2026 9:29 pm I will note that Upchurch had a truly baffling All-Decade selection: 2nd team 1980s kick returner with ZERO kick returns in the 1980s. How did that happen?

Yes that is absurd. Ron Brown instead

yes its crazy close-but with NFL 75th Anniversary All-Time Team and NFL 100th Anniversary All-Time Team I would lean towards White Shoes

Alas after Hester (when many anticipated increased interest on KR PR from voters) I felt it would be very unlikely we get another one, regardless of the election process and class sizes...and now with smaller classes and both of them tossed in with modern (post 2000) players, its become virtually impossible to ever occur...sad

I would go White Shoes, but I may be biased since we both graduated from the same alma mater. I do think that he has a slight edge over Upchurch, but both do belong.

Upchurch has better stats, but Johnson was more electric. Interesting, one of White Shoes' most famous highlights was a punt return TD at Seattle in 1977 that was called back by a penalty, but it was so good that it was left on that seasons' NFL Films highlights resume.

PaulPFHOF wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2026 12:45 pm yes its crazy close-but with NFL 75th Anniversary All-Time Team and NFL 100th Anniversary All-Time Team I would lean towards White Shoes

White Shoes also won the 1983 NFL Comeback Player of the Award. I'm amazed that he hasn't been voted into the PFHOF.

On a side note:

In 1985 NFL Properties published the book, 25 Years: The NFL Since 1960. They selected an official 1960-84 All-Star team and Rick Upchurch was chosen over Billy Johnson at the kick returner position. The team was also featured in the 1985 NFL Team Book magazine that was published that year (Roger Craig on cover).

Retro Rider wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2026 5:30 pm

PaulPFHOF wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2026 12:45 pm yes its crazy close-but with NFL 75th Anniversary All-Time Team and NFL 100th Anniversary All-Time Team I would lean towards White Shoes

White Shoes also won the 1983 NFL Comeback Player of the Award. I'm amazed that he hasn't been voted into the PFHOF.

On a side note:

In 1985 NFL Properties published the book, 25 Years: The NFL Since 1960. They selected an official 1960-84 All-Star team and Rick Upchurch was chosen over Billy Johnson at the kick returner position. The team was also featured in the 1985 NFL Team Book magazine that was published that year (Roger Craig on cover).

Yes--remember that.

It may come down to--in terms of 75th and 100th--is shoe color making the name more memorable to committees.

readjack wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2026 9:29 pm

I will note that Upchurch had a truly baffling All-Decade selection: 2nd team 1980s kick returner with ZERO kick returns in the 1980s. How did that happen?

It's very close, and I want them both. But I would take Upchurch first.

came down to voters in 1990 -- not being very conscientious. It was when they separated KR and PR

Kick Returner Mike Nelms (Washington Redskins) 7½ -- Rick Upchurch (Denver Broncos) 5
Punt Returner Billy "White Shoes" Johnson (Atlanta Falcons, Washington Redskins) 13 -- John Taylor (San Francisco 49ers) 3

the voting was split--for KR just 12-1/2 votes known...and none for KR should have gone to RU

JohnTurney wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2026 12:31 pm

readjack wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2026 9:29 pm

I will note that Upchurch had a truly baffling All-Decade selection: 2nd team 1980s kick returner with ZERO kick returns in the 1980s. How did that happen?

It's very close, and I want them both. But I would take Upchurch first.

came down to voters in 1990 -- not being very conscientious. It was when they separated KR and PR

Kick Returner Mike Nelms (Washington Redskins) 7½ -- Rick Upchurch (Denver Broncos) 5
Punt Returner Billy "White Shoes" Johnson (Atlanta Falcons, Washington Redskins) 13 -- John Taylor (San Francisco 49ers) 3

the voting was split--for KR just 12-1/2 votes known...and none for KR should have gone to RU

we criticized that a while back
https://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com ... tique.html