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Don Shula's Best Teams

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2025 12:34 am
by Halas Hall
What are Don Shula's five best teams?

It seems like the candidates are 1964, 1965, 1967, 1968 Baltimore Colts and the 1971, 1972, 1973, and 1984 Miami Dolphins.

1964, 1971, and 1984 they lost badly in the Championship Games, but the teams were very good. 1967 and 1968 they only lost one regular season game.

It seems we can stipulate that 1972 stands in the top slot.

Just wondering what people think.

Re: Don Shula's Best Teams

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2025 6:30 am
by Citizen
Haven't a number of players who were on both teams said that the '73 squad was better than the 17-0 group? Maybe that's anecdotal, but the '73 team had a notably tougher schedule and dominated its post-season opponents in a way the '72 team didn't.

Re: Don Shula's Best Teams

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2025 9:24 am
by JohnTurney
Citizen wrote: Fri Jun 20, 2025 6:30 am Haven't a number of players who were on both teams said that the '73 squad was better than the 17-0 group? Maybe that's anecdotal, but the '73 team had a notably tougher schedule and dominated its post-season opponents in a way the '72 team didn't.
I think I'd vote 1973. Obviosuly 72 moesuccessful in meeting goal of not losing .. but pass rush better in 73, Griese more efficient ... close call but 73 for me.

Re: Don Shula's Best Teams

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2025 6:27 pm
by Brian wolf
Another question ... could the Dolphins had gone undefeated with Bill Arnsparger coaching defense in 1984? In 1983 with the Dolphins, his defense was much better than the SB team which went 14-2. They won 12 games with Marino as a rookie in 1983, even beating the 49ers. Could they have beaten them in 1984 with Arnsparger? The 49ers might have struggled alot more ...

Re: Don Shula's Best Teams

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2025 7:18 pm
by CSKreager
Brian wolf wrote: Fri Jun 20, 2025 6:27 pm Another question ... could the Dolphins had gone undefeated with Bill Arnsparger coaching defense in 1984? In 1983 with the Dolphins, his defense was much better than the SB team which went 14-2. They won 12 games with Marino as a rookie in 1983, even beating the 49ers. Could they have beaten them in 1984 with Arnsparger? The 49ers might have struggled alot more ...
Heck in 83 they best SanFran AT CANDLESTICK when the 49ers had basically the same roster

Re: Don Shula's Best Teams

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:32 pm
by 74_75_78_79_
JohnTurney wrote: Fri Jun 20, 2025 9:24 am
Citizen wrote: Fri Jun 20, 2025 6:30 am Haven't a number of players who were on both teams said that the '73 squad was better than the 17-0 group? Maybe that's anecdotal, but the '73 team had a notably tougher schedule and dominated its post-season opponents in a way the '72 team didn't.
I think I'd vote 1973. Obviosuly 72 moesuccessful in meeting goal of not losing .. but pass rush better in 73, Griese more efficient ... close call but 73 for me.
For the longest time I opined that '73 was stronger than '72. But I have changed that as of late. You two, however, may be planting seeds to inspire me to flip it back. More dominant and a stronger schedule, yes, which is why I went with '73 in the first place.

And that playoff run of theirs...very dominant wins, both on the scoreboard and on the stat sheet (just look), over three Hall of Fame HCs!

That Bengals team (they or '75) ought to be considered Paul Brown's best with Cincy. 27 first downs to 11, and 400 total yards to 194; not to mention Miami turning the ball over three times to Cincy doing so just once...sick!

There has been talk of the '73 Raiders not being that spectacular compared to Madden's other great teams. In that old regular season Power Rankings thread I started on this very season years ago, I had the Raiders ranked quite low. But I really should place them in better esteem. Two winning teams were in their division. They clobbered one of them penultimate week (with Stram still onboard, mind you), and simply won the finale play-in that they had to win against Denver! "Just WIN, Baby", and WIN they did! Beat a great (despite still needing that '74 Draft) Steeler team convincingly thus getting to the AFCCG. Yes, '73 was still a solid Madden squad. And they were #3 overall in offense and #2 in defense! Miami was #3 in defense and only...#9 in offense! As for Y/A, Oakland finished at a staggering net +1.4! But Miami did top them at +1.6!! I think those are the two best net-Y/As I've seen yet!

And 12-2 Minnesota that year, I think, was Bud Grant's best '70s squad.

And look what Miami did to all three of these great teams in the playoffs! So flipping back to '73 again over '72 in the future is not an impossibility. '73 losing at Raiders in Week #2 clearly no disgrace. Oakland a great team and that win-streak 'bubble' had to burst soon enough (like Steelers beating NE in '04). But there was a real bad game-and-a-half late that year (Steelers rallying hard in 2nd half/that weird loss at 2-10 Colts).

The 1972 Dolphins never had such a bad game-and-a-half stretch yet alone lose a single game! They won 'em ALL! 17-0 is 17-0, #1 in both O & D scoring AND yardage is just that; and, btw...+1.3 Y/A (easy schedule or not)! The '72 Dolphins, to me, finally arrived as a dominant team in their very final game...SBVII itself, the most-lopsided 14-7 win you'll ever know!

Flip it back? We'll see. Maybe, maybe not; maybe simply TIE them (32-2 Back-to-Back, end-of-day and pretty, quite frankly, Historically awesome)! Don Shula's two greatest HC-ing years are - indeed - his two most successful ones...1972, and then, 1973!
CSKreager wrote: Fri Jun 20, 2025 7:18 pm
Brian wolf wrote: Fri Jun 20, 2025 6:27 pm Another question ... could the Dolphins had gone undefeated with Bill Arnsparger coaching defense in 1984? In 1983 with the Dolphins, his defense was much better than the SB team which went 14-2. They won 12 games with Marino as a rookie in 1983, even beating the 49ers. Could they have beaten them in 1984 with Arnsparger? The 49ers might have struggled alot more ...
Heck in 83 they best SanFran AT CANDLESTICK when the 49ers had basically the same roster
A 16-0 vs 15-1 Super Bowl?? Wow! You know what that would have meant...combined-W/L-record-wise, it TOPS Bears/Redskins '42!

I'm sure most here could picture an '84 Dolphin defense with Arnsparger as better than it actually was IRL even if still a slight (or maybe more than slight) step down from '83 anyway. Sure-enough it would be enough to turn that first loss of the year, in OT at Jack Murphy, into a 'W' (along with Philly maybe not giving them as good a game they actually did the previous week). But you can't mess with the Raiders and that 'hold' they still had on them in that immediate time. I think the Raiders likely still win anyway thus hand Miami, in this hypo, their first loss.

The point-spread on an 18-0 Miami vs a 17-1 San Fran SBXIX? I'd have to imagine that the 'sexy' Dolphins, being undefeated and all and especially with all the Marino hype, would be installed as the favorite. Just by a little, I think. How about 2 or 2.5?

15-1 vs 15-1? Hmm. Tough to say. Maybe San Fran by just 1 or 1.5? Because they'd be...closer to home (Stanford)? Or could, as CSK reminded us, Miami beating them at Candlestick the year prior have any pull (I know, '84 a different story than '83)?

Either way, IMO, I think San Fran prevails over Arnsparger no matter what Miami's record would have been going into the Big Game. Yes, a closer game; likely a close game-period. I'm going to guess San Fran by 7 or, maybe, 10. A Joe Cool 2-minute-drill in the end would not be necessary. That San Fran D is still tough on Dan and that limited-dimensional offensive unit in such a hypo.

JMHO, could be wrong. Bill Arnsparger still onboard in Miami in '84...hey, you never know.


PS - From one who really was into the Seahawks being in the playoffs and actually winning a couple games (Penn State National Champ, Curt Warner, their RB) - and rooting for them in LA for the AFCC (also rooting for them against the Raiders & Dolphins in '84 as well) - how did an '83 Miami team, who most here as well as myself really respect, allow it to happen? Maybe I'm wrong but it seems that many think they were better, or at least more-balanced, than both '82 AND '84!

Was it just another pre-'72/post-'73 Don Shula post-season underachievement?

Re: Don Shula's Best Teams

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2025 8:57 pm
by JuggernautJ
I don't know that I have a final opinion on ranking Shula's best teams but I did find their relative offensive/defensive placement interesting.
PFR's listing based on points (as opposed to yardage):

1964 Colts: 1/1 of 14 NFL teams

1965 Colts: 3/4 of 14 NFL teams

1967 Colts: 2/2 of 16 NFL teams

1968 Colts: 2/1 of 16 NFL teams

1971 Dolphins: 4/3 of 26 NFL teams

1972 Dolphins: 1/1 of 26 NFL teams

1973 Dolphins: 5/1 of 26 NFL teams

1984 Dolphins: 1/7 of 28 NFL teams

So if we add together both numbers for each season we get the following:

1 (tie). 1964 Colts and 1972 Dolphins (1+1 = 2 "points" each)
3. 1968 Colts (3)
4. 1967 Colts (4)
5. 1973 Dolphins (6)
6 (tie). 1965 Colts and 1971 Dolphins (7)
8. 1984 Dolphins (8)

I would probably agree with the first three of those.
After that it might be subject to personal opinion.
I was surprised to see the '73 Dolphins coming in at only 5th place but that might reflect the number of teams in the league (compared to the earlier Colts teams).

Re: Don Shula's Best Teams

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2025 3:23 pm
by Brian wolf
The Dolphins were favored over the Seahawks in the 1983/84 postseason but I believe simply overlooked them. Marino had a great year but the bye week affected he and the other younger players, while the Hawks were ready to play smash-mouth football.

They ran well because Arnsparger's defenses prioritized stopping the pass. The Dolphins shut-out Largent and speedster Turner pretty well but Largent made a big catch late in the game to preserve their victory. The Dolphins took care of business the next postseason. I dont believe they beat the Raiders anyway. The Raiders had the pass rush to get to Marino and Duper and Clayton struggled against Haynes and Hayes, though Clayton had a huge game in 1984. Even in 1986, the Raiders led big before giving up yardage at the end of the game ...

Re: Don Shula's Best Teams

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2025 4:35 pm
by JohnTurney
Are we talking regular season only? If so my answer wouldn't change (1973) but other teams would rank higher in my view



JuggernautJ wrote: Mon Jun 23, 2025 8:57 pm I don't know that I have a final opinion on ranking Shula's best teams but I did find their relative offensive/defensive placement interesting.
PFR's listing based on points (as opposed to yardage):

1964 Colts: 1/1 of 14 NFL teams

1965 Colts: 3/4 of 14 NFL teams

1967 Colts: 2/2 of 16 NFL teams

1968 Colts: 2/1 of 16 NFL teams

1971 Dolphins: 4/3 of 26 NFL teams

1972 Dolphins: 1/1 of 26 NFL teams

1973 Dolphins: 5/1 of 26 NFL teams

1984 Dolphins: 1/7 of 28 NFL teams

So if we add together both numbers for each season we get the following:

1 (tie). 1964 Colts and 1972 Dolphins (1+1 = 2 "points" each)
3. 1968 Colts (3)
4. 1967 Colts (4)
5. 1973 Dolphins (6)
6 (tie). 1965 Colts and 1971 Dolphins (7)
8. 1984 Dolphins (8)

I would probably agree with the first three of those.
After that it might be subject to personal opinion.
I was surprised to see the '73 Dolphins coming in at only 5th place but that might reflect the number of teams in the league (compared to the earlier Colts teams).

Re: Don Shula's Best Teams

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2025 7:12 pm
by JuggernautJ
JohnTurney wrote: Tue Jun 24, 2025 4:35 pm Are we talking regular season only? If so my answer wouldn't change (1973) but other teams would rank higher in my view
This is certainly not an in-depth study of each team.
I was curious as to how each team ranked that season compared to other teams in their league/conference so I looked at the top page of each team in PFR under "Team Stats and Ranking."
For instance:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... t/1964.htm

As this is also listed for teams that didn't make the playoffs I would assume it is for the regular season only.