Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Just now, I was yet again reminded that New Orleans were just 4-12 in Bum Phillips' first year as their HC in '81! 7-9, or 6-10 at worse, was always on the brain if I ever thought of that very Saints campaign. Reading my new Zander/Hollander as the season began in 5th grade (you know, the one with Plunkett on the front cover, SBXV, about to throw a pass as Claude's hand was on his other arm - #31 running for a TD against blue-"jinx"-jersey-ed Dallas, NFCCG, on the back cover), I was really into the story of Bum Phillips now taking over the Saints and they #1-overall-drafting National Champ, George Rogers! FWIW they did beat the Rams in Wk#2 in the midst of LA's 4-2 start, no one knowing yet that they'd end up faltering. And the Saints did beat SB-bound Cincy along with...beating Houston at the Astrodome ('revenge' over Adams)!

That 3-1 start in '82 excited me but we all know what happened after that. As can be said with, practically, every team in that anti-esteemed '82 season, "what-if" the season went full instead? Respectability but perhaps still a losing season anyway. Who knows? 4-5 still an improvement over 4-12.

And not only Bum's best Saints season, but the most successful Saints season until Mora...1983! I just watched "A Little Bit More" (Bum's big maxim to his players; that Dr Hook hit should have blasted at the Superdome during it all, lol), the great highlight film from that very campaign. I opined previously (https://www.profootballresearchers.org/ ... 11&p=15252) that I thought '79 had more 'star'-power thus the better team even though I normally respect defense over offense. But as far as 'success' is concerned, '79 was already out of it by the time of their finale against the Rams. In this '83 case, however, NO were indeed still in it and simply had to beat the Rams in the finale, at home, and they'd be in the playoffs (against a falling Dallas team) as well as scoring their first winning season ever!

But not to be. Seeing that highlight film, so many names that I was not at all familiar with! Just Ken Stabler, Morten Andersen, Rickey Jackson (3rd-Rd pick in '81), and...Leon Gray (traded to them, for Archie, in '82)! That's really it. Hoike Gajan, apparently, a forgotten Warrior! I actually did hear the name Guido Merkens before. The total opposite of '79 they were, all D and relatively little offense. Yes, a win is a win and a loss is a loss, but not just the finale, but Saints were close to beating the Rams in their earlier match in the disgusting hot LA smog.

And that Cowboys loss, in midst of Big D's 7-0 start, game winning safety! Just another example that all the comeback majesty of them wasn't just Danny White or Stabach before him, but simply...Tom Landry! Other factors played into it as well. Simply team-preparation, paying attention to details, etc. They didn't "comeback" all the time during that era due to constant "luck". But, anyway, NO came up just short end of day.

Losing at home to the Jets, 31-28, and then at Meyer's Pats in the bitter elements, 7-0, clearly didn't help. And, man, San Fran doused them in each of their affairs. No, they didn't deserve the division title, but were just shy of being a deserving playoff participant.

What Bum's 1983 was to Nolan's 1979, his 1984 (his second-best Saints squad) was to Nolan's 1978 (his second-best Saints squad). In all cases, of course, Bum having the relatively "just"-defense as Nolan had the relatively "just"-offense. Beating Pittsburgh on MNF to get to 6-6 clearly was the 1984 season highlight before, sadly, crumbling from there.

Just a little bit more (no pun) air left going into '85. Saints started 3-2 but then it ALL went out for good.

So what are your takes on this "eve" of the Jim Mora/playoffs era that involved Bum being the captain of the Big Easy ship the five seasons leading up?

I, personally, would have liked to see him have more success; at least make the playoffs in '83. Yes, he was well past-peak, but seeing Stabler still around was cool. He and Bum (and the "fun", laid-back atmosphere Bum instilled among his entire team) went well together. I'm not an expert on John Mecom, Jr. But going by that '83 film, he and Bum seemed to be on the same page/personality as well.

For someone who DID try to prevent my team from making those '78 & '79 Super Bowls, I've always been a big fan of the Man in the Stetson (only if not in a dome/indoors, of course), buttoned shirt, and jeans/boots. The greatest "players-coach" ever being that very trait didn't prevent full-potential to his team. The '78/'79 Steelers and perhaps being too 'old-school' at times, or maybe taking on both HC & GM. the reasons he didn't win-it-all; being a "players-coach" not ever being the reason for any lack of further success. No crime. My kind of HC. He stuck to his own style. Wish there were more today like him - the 'Will Rogers' of NFL HCs!

Apropos of very little, I swear there was NFL Films footage of Bum getting his cowboy hat stolen off of his head at Atlanta when he was Saints coach. It was late in his time in New Orleans.

I saw it in on Inside The NFL at the time, but have never been able to find footage of it.

I know someone who thinks that Bum should have been more committed to Archie instead of trading him away in 1982. He has a point. He was younger than Stabler, who probably should have retired after 1980.

Also, someone on You Tube did a history on the Saints. On part 2 (1973-86), at the 47:54 mark, the narrator basically said that the 1983 Week 16 loss to the Rams took the heart out of Bum, leading to his eventual retirement during the 1985 season:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GfqoOse_Bc

74_75_78_79_ wrote: ↑Sun May 11, 2025 7:25 pm In this '83 case, however, NO were indeed still in it and simply had to beat the Rams in the finale, at home, and they'd be in the playoffs (against a falling Dallas team) as well as scoring their first winning season ever!

But not to be.

That 83 Rams team was an absolute joke. Zero semblance of a passing offense and just overreliant on 1 RB and fluky return TD's bailing out Ferragamo. How that one dimensional 3 yards and a cloud of dust can’t throw the ball team made the playoffs let alone won a playoff game is astonishing.

CSKreager wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 2:35 pm That 83 Rams team was an absolute joke. Zero semblance of a passing offense and just overreliant on 1 RB and fluky return TD's bailing out Ferragamo. How that one dimensional 3 yards and a cloud of dust can’t throw the ball team made the playoffs let alone won a playoff game is astonishing.

Well, that one running back was Eric Dickerson so it was more like 4.6 yards and a cloud of dust...

Speaking of the Rams, what-if HC John Robinson had committed to Jeff Kemp as the starting QB? The guy was 9-5 as starter before going to the Niners in 1986 to help the team when Montana was out. Why would the Rams let him go there? The guy was a good backup and had a winning record as a starter for various teams.

Brian wolf wrote: ↑Thu May 15, 2025 9:44 am Speaking of the Rams, what-if HC John Robinson had committed to Jeff Kemp as the starting QB? The guy was 9-5 as starter before going to the Niners in 1986 to help the team when Montana was out. Why would the Rams let him go there? The guy was a good backup and had a winning record as a starter for various teams.

That's a good point. Kemp probably would have done better than Dieter Brock or a washed-up Steve Bartkowski in 85 and 86. Maybe they should have stayed with him (and maybe the 49ers should have traded for Everett instead like they almost did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR-g-WLl3K4).

That video mentioned Kemp having a tough 1985 season but he was tougher than many realized. The Rams just didnt want to commit to him, despite his obvious mobility. Maybe they thought Brock could continue to get better but he seemed to be more gun-shy and sackable than his CFL days. Different leagues however.

The Oilers should have taken that deal from SF. Came down to Michael Carter, despite all those draft choices. Everett was smart wanting more money, knowing Warren Moon would be breathing down his neck. With Everett possibly in SF--who also tried to draft him--who aggressively tries to get Young from TB? Could the Eagles have tried to get him over Cunningham? Could he have replaced Fouts in SD?

Back to the Saints ... Bobby Hebert had a decent career in NO, without much help at the skill positions. Could he have been better with more committment from the coaching staffs? They went with Dave Wilson in 85-86 but could Hebert and Eric Martin developed quicker with more starting time? I didnt realize that Wilson had been a high supplemental pick, so maybe the coaching staffs were under pressure to develop him, but we are talking Bum and Jim Mora here, who liked to run the ball?

CSKreager wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 2:35 pm

74_75_78_79_ wrote: ↑Sun May 11, 2025 7:25 pm In this '83 case, however, NO were indeed still in it and simply had to beat the Rams in the finale, at home, and they'd be in the playoffs (against a falling Dallas team) as well as scoring their first winning season ever!

But not to be.

That 83 Rams team was an absolute joke. Zero semblance of a passing offense

You might be thinking of 1984. 1983 Rams passing game was nothing to write home about but it was mid-level despite WRs that were probably less than mediocre. Ferregamo could hit deep passes and dumped it to Barber and Dickerson. But overall I think you'll find the 1983 passing game hovered around 14-15th in major categories. Running game was excellent, but still top ten in most stuff. They didn't lead in anything and a lot of teams ran the ball more. Yes, Dickerson got the carries, but for good reason.

If you want to go after 1984 passing game ... then yeah, it was only reasonable effective on deep passes. Nothing that could move the chains, poor use of RBs and TEs ... a lot of 18-22 yard routes for WR and Kemp, with a flat ball, had enough of a arm to hit those and some of those were excellent catches.

Whats ur opinion John? Could the Rams have won with Kemp from 84-86? Or beyond?