I think this is the ACTUAL rule: Refs Warning to Washington About Awarding a TD

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GameBeforeTheMoney
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I think this is the ACTUAL rule: Refs Warning to Washington About Awarding a TD

Post by GameBeforeTheMoney »

So - everybody's now talking about this one particular rule and the "palpably unfair act." Is that enough here? Below is the actual wording. I don't think this is correct. I think they were invoking another rule that I'll put after this one.

Section 2 - Touchdown
Article 1. Touchdown Plays

A touchdown is scored, and the ball becomes dead when...

"the Referee awards a touchdown to a team that has been denied one by a palpably unfair act."

Okay, so that's assuming that Philadelphia would score anyway. I don't think that's enough, personally, because of fumbled snaps, false starts, etc. And how is trying to time the snap "palpably unfair?"

So, I really believe THIS is the actual rule they're enforcing. It's pretty much word for word.

Section 3 - Unsportsmanlike Conduct
Article 2. Fouls To Prevent Score


"The defense shall not commit successive or repeated fouls to prevent a score.

Penalty: For successive or repeated fouls to prevent a score: If the violation is repeated after a warning, the score involved is awarded to the offensive team."

I think this is the actual rule they were following, not the first one mentioned.
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RichardBak
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Re: I think this is the ACTUAL rule: Refs Warning to Washington About Awarding a TD

Post by RichardBak »

Never knew of this rule. Wonder if it's ever been enforced? And I assume just the TD is awarded, not the XP as that's a separate play.

Watch enough games, you still learn something.
JohnTurney
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Re: I think this is the ACTUAL rule: Refs Warning to Washington About Awarding a TD

Post by JohnTurney »

RichardBak wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 9:21 pm Never knew of this rule. Wonder if it's ever been enforced? And I assume just the TD is awarded, not the XP as that's a separate play.

Watch enough games, you still learn something.
never been enforced in NFL game. In college has been
ChrisBabcock
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Re: I think this is the ACTUAL rule: Refs Warning to Washington About Awarding a TD

Post by ChrisBabcock »

I've been watching NFL football for 40+ years and have never heard of this rule threatening to be enforced before today.... Let alone me never even hearing of this rule before today. Ya learn somethin' new.
Reaser
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Re: I think this is the ACTUAL rule: Refs Warning to Washington About Awarding a TD

Post by Reaser »

ChrisBabcock wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 10:56 pm I've been watching NFL football for 40+ years and have never heard of this rule threatening to be enforced before today.... Let alone me never even hearing of this rule before today. Ya learn somethin' new.
You've probably heard the first half of it, at least. On FGs/PATs teams have been warned for repeatedly going offsides.
Jay Z
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Re: I think this is the ACTUAL rule: Refs Warning to Washington About Awarding a TD

Post by Jay Z »

JohnTurney wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 10:03 pm
RichardBak wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 9:21 pm Never knew of this rule. Wonder if it's ever been enforced? And I assume just the TD is awarded, not the XP as that's a separate play.

Watch enough games, you still learn something.
never been enforced in NFL game. In college has been
Yeah, there was the Tommy Lewis/Dicky Moegle play.

But this would have been awarding a score on a dead ball. Not a live action play. I was aware of the rule.
rewing84
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Re: I think this is the ACTUAL rule: Refs Warning to Washington About Awarding a TD

Post by rewing84 »

GameBeforeTheMoney wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 8:12 pm So - everybody's now talking about this one particular rule and the "palpably unfair act." Is that enough here? Below is the actual wording. I don't think this is correct. I think they were invoking another rule that I'll put after this one.

Section 2 - Touchdown
Article 1. Touchdown Plays

A touchdown is scored, and the ball becomes dead when...

"the Referee awards a touchdown to a team that has been denied one by a palpably unfair act."

Okay, so that's assuming that Philadelphia would score anyway. I don't think that's enough, personally, because of fumbled snaps, false starts, etc. And how is trying to time the snap "palpably unfair?"

So, I really believe THIS is the actual rule they're enforcing. It's pretty much word for word.

Section 3 - Unsportsmanlike Conduct
Article 2. Fouls To Prevent Score


"The defense shall not commit successive or repeated fouls to prevent a score.

Penalty: For successive or repeated fouls to prevent a score: If the violation is repeated after a warning, the score involved is awarded to the offensive team."

I think this is the actual rule they were following, not the first one mentioned.
Appreciate the additional information did not know the whole rule
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65 toss power trap
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Re: I think this is the ACTUAL rule: Refs Warning to Washington About Awarding a TD

Post by 65 toss power trap »

GameBeforeTheMoney wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 8:12 pm So - everybody's now talking about this one particular rule and the "palpably unfair act." Is that enough here? Below is the actual wording. I don't think this is correct. I think they were invoking another rule that I'll put after this one.

Section 2 - Touchdown
Article 1. Touchdown Plays

A touchdown is scored, and the ball becomes dead when...

"the Referee awards a touchdown to a team that has been denied one by a palpably unfair act."
Rule 11-2-1 which you cite above and quote (e) as the mention of a palpably unfair act is not where that term is defined. It is used throughout to define extraordinary situations that are so extreme as to require the crew to create an equitable enforcement in a manner that might go beyond standard rules. Some of these situations are committed in writing in the rules, such as goaltending and interference with a live play. The repeated fouls to deny a score rule you cited (12-3-2) doesn't specifically state "palpably unfair act" but it is by it's proximity to other rules and its enforcement. It was once adjacent to 12-3-4 that does use those words, so they used to be paired together. Another rule related to 12-3-2 but is not considered a palpably unfair act was placed in between.

Basically the old-timey language of "palpably unfair act" I just sum up as something that is "a travesty to football." Without having unsportsmanlike conduct and then palpably unfair acts in the rules, the leaping would continue until it was timed correctly. Without having a means to break that cycle is palpably unfair, because the defense is deliberately taking advantage of a meaningless half-distance penalty on the chance they time it right and thwart the offense.

An example where it is more glaringly unfair is when an edge rusher for the Texans tried to block a Panthers FG kick by repeatedly attempting to time the snap:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtYLgTG8Rnk

Because he came across unabated, there is no play, so even if the kick succeeds, there is no kick because there's no legal snap. There was discussion by the officiating department that the palpably unfair act could have been warned on the third attempt had there been another flag.

So, the touchdown definition (back to Rule 11-2-1) and other places (such as overtime rules) state "or a score awarded by a palpably unfair act," it is meant to encompass all those situations where a referee awarded a score because an equitable enforcement was required.

A palpably unfair act does not have to involve a score. For instance, when Mike Tomlin interfered with a live play on Thanksgiving 2013, that should have been flagged as a palpably unfair act. Even though he didn't make contact (which is what I guess the covering official was thinking) it is clear that he caused Jacoby Jones to react. Awarding a score wouldn't be appropriate in this case, because it wasn't clear that he would have scored. But the officials could have assessed 15 yards or more (instead of half the distance).

Quirky Research has done a deep dive and found several categories of palpably unfair acts in college and the NFL. To date, there is no record of a palpably unfair act being called in the NFL.

https://www.quirkyresearch.com/football ... fair-acts/
Brian wolf
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Re: I think this is the ACTUAL rule: Refs Warning to Washington About Awarding a TD

Post by Brian wolf »

The Commanders defense yesterday, was a "palpably unfair act" to the Washington fans. Early in the game, Lattimore was getting physical and scrapping with AJ Brown. Instead of the rest of the defense picking up on that intensity, they go the opposite direction with Sainristil covering Brown and being exposed like a rookie, instead of a veteran. Just too many breakdowns on run or pass. Barkley could have had back-to-back 200 yrd games, if he chose.

Maybe the magnitude of the game just got the best of them, or they simply got frustrated with the Eagles execution--though as usual, the Eagles offensive line gets away with procedures and holding--so they basically allowed drives to snowball. Would have been better had the Lions faced the Eagles instead*

*After watching the replay again, I might have been too harsh on the Commanders defense. Yes, giving up 55 points and 7 rushing TDs, sounds pretty darn bad, yet the defense also had shorter fields due to offensive turnovers and had some redzone pass interference penalties that helped the Eagles push the ball in. By the end of the game, they were exhausted.
JameisBrownston
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Re: I think this is the ACTUAL rule: Refs Warning to Washington About Awarding a TD

Post by JameisBrownston »

The Luvu sequence was one of the wildest things I've ever watched take place on an NFL field. Is this finally the off-season for the tush push reckoning to commence? Defenses are getting demonstratively fed up now.
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