Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

I just saw the new 30 for 30 'New York Sack Exchange' doc. A great watch!

Brought back memories of me following football for the first time, and the initial excitement that came with it; and yet another reminder of how perfect their unis were. I've mentioned my affinity for the '81 Jets numerous times already. As much as I also look back fondly on Knox's Bills, I've always been saddened by NYJ's early exit that post-season. They're among my favorite one-year non-Steeler teams. Maybe I place them above the following year's AFCCG-berth installment because of it being the notorious '82 campaign, but even if the Jets make the SB, or better, in a full season, just the simple new-and-exciting first playoff berth (first winning season, period) in twelve years after starting out 0-3, I feel, would still do it for me.

I guess you can call that divisional at Cleveland in '86 the last such 'hurrah' of that era, But I feel that there's an argument for calling two years later such a "last breath". They, and Gastineau, started out fine in '88. But #99 ended up leaving. But FWIW (again, FWIW) they at least rally themselves to a winning season, beating a respectable 8-6 Colts team who were still in the race if however slightly and then...eliminate the Giants in the finale to get that final mark to above-500! And, hey, they finally beat the Steelers. '89, and the seasons beyond, were such an obvious-enough drop-off! No longer had that decade-long identity whatsoever.

I like hearing Mike Greenberg's take in the doc. He was at that playoff-clinching finale over GB at Shea in '81 and said he would never forget it. When I look at that campaign, I first think of that win over Miami. But if I could go back in time to see just one of their games, I think I'd rather bundle-up and attend that finale. The simple pandemonium and euphoria that must have been produced! Actually, I'd also rather attend that one than their 'tournament' win in LA over the Raiders a year later.

Yes, Walt Michaels much more revered in Jets lore, but after two non-playoff years in his first two seasons taking over, give enough to Joe Walton for at least preventing things from getting worse and at least returning NYJ to the playoffs in '85 & '86. I still to this day don't understand that collapse in '86 which, regular season wise, was much worse than last year's Eagles. For it to end up that bad only to then (unlike last year's Eagles) simply turn back on the switch and play well for the most part in their two playoff games.

'86 the only year ever that a Jets/Giants Super Bowl was at least flirted with. And in baseball, the Yankees in '86 were also atop the AL, eyeing the Mets across leagues, for a bit before faltering.


I know there have been such threads on this Jets era previously, but plenty to still discuss, I'd imagine.

The Mets and Jets owners--though the football team deferred to the baseball team--should have made more improvements to Shea and kept the team there. Why go to the Meadowlands and share with the Giants? I always felt had the Jets gotten Marino instead of O'Brien, they might have challenged for a championship but instead, mostly mediocrity. At least Rex Ryan came in and got the team close again but the Colts and Steelers were better.

That 1986 Jets-Browns playoff game remains one of the most entertaining games I've ever seen where I didn't have a strong rooting interest.

It's also notable that, because of how it ended, NBC during its postgame coverage showed the original telecast video of Yepremian's winning field goal in the 1971 Miami-Kansas City classic. To my knowledge that footage hasn't been broadcast since.

Brian wolf wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 12:54 pm The Mets and Jets owners--though the football team deferred to the baseball team--should have made more improvements to Shea and kept the team there. Why go to the Meadowlands and share with the Giants? I always felt had the Jets gotten Marino instead of O'Brien, they might have challenged for a championship but instead, mostly mediocrity. At least Rex Ryan came in and got the team close again but the Colts and Steelers were better.

I'm not a Giants-fan, but I wish that they would still share the Stadium with my Yanks whilst being treated by them as equals instead of that lesser tenant. The same with me wishing that the Jets NEVER left Shea!

This would open the door for, maybe, New Jersey to have their very own NFL franchise (Meadowlands). Yes, this would have to involve many from the Garden State to abandon the two NY teams they were loyal to up until, but being that this is...the Big Apple we're talking of, and North Jersey not being too shabby itself population-wise, I can't help but to guess that there would be more than enough fandom for all three franchises! They'd feel as if they now had their own "thing", like Tony Soprano and his crew on their own with New York (Johnny Sack, Phil Leotardo) on the other side. Feeling like the underdogs and having that permanent chip on their shoulder!

Maybe (likely not) I knew this previously, but I'm surprised to just see that the Jets actually started 6-2 in their first season at the Meadowlands in '84! Yes, it was against soft competition before faltering to that 7-9 finish.

1985...soft competition as well in that 4-1 start. But then comes MNF at the Meadowlands, and they best defending-AFC-champ Miami to make it 5-1! They seriously shut down Dan! They lose at Foxborough the following week, but split with the Pats weeks later. An 11-5 finish. At least they split with NE & Mia. Hey, they finally beat the Seahawks! And no ridiculous collapse as they did the following year. They just, simply, lose to SB-bound Pats, 26-14, at home in that Wild Card Game. No outrageous disgrace. Perhaps a better year than my personally esteemed 1981. It's just that '81 was an exciting first time in 12 years as not the case in '85.

And their penultimate game against da Bears...no, not a nail-biter. Look at the box-score and, indeed, lopsided. Bears had the ball for practically 40 minutes! But the Jets really didn't play too badly against them on this, here, 39th anniversay of the very event. And it WAS on a Saturday and, this time, I am fully correct, lol. Da Bears sacked O'Brien 4 times, but the Jets sacked McMahon...FIVE times!! The score was 13-6 at the end of three quarters only for Butler to, simply, kick two FGs for good measure to make it a 19-6 final. No real deal disgrace.

Enough give da '85 Bears gruff for apparently not playing against enough great passing offenses. I confess I've been guilty a bit in the past. But hogwash in the end. Hogwash. As I've lately, enlightenedly pointed out...yes, there's Dan (but really, simply an upset; the 12-0 'bubble' was just about to burst; who better than a future-top-tier-1st-Ballot HOF QB to help burst it? that's all) Theismann, Montana, Danny White (44-0!! and AT Texas Stadium vs an eventual division champ), KEN O'BRIEN, and Phil Simms in the playoffs more than ENOUGH to serve as a debunker!! Holding Ken at the Meadowlands to just two FGs with a good offense around him is still Historically STOUT!! Remember, he WAS a Pro Bowl QB! Of course, Wolf, it'd be better for NYJ if Dan was their QB but Ken was fine enough. Jets in-general simply just needed MORE.

That NY Sack Exchange Front Four...it was said in that doc that had they at least won a Super Bowl that they would be even more Historically honored. To those more in-the-know, especially serious Jets-fans/historians here, what names and examples can you give of the OTHER defenders from that time? LBs, cornerbacks, safeties? And what about special teams? Much thanks in-advance for any enlightenings and knowledge-drops!

I've mentioned my affinity for the '81 Jets numerous times already. As much as I also look back fondly on Knox's Bills, I've always been saddened by NYJ's early exit that post-season. They're among my favorite one-year non-Steeler teams.

If they find a way to pull out that WC game against the Bills that year, they go to Cincinnati. In Week 2 of that season, they blew two separate ten point leads to the Bengals before losing 31-30. Then, the next year, they beat Cincy in the first round of the SB Tournament. They would have had a solid chance at an upset, which would have sent them to San Diego.

I see the Chargers winning that one, and I think they beat SF in a mild shootout in SB 16 (not quite like their game later that year in December, but close).

They, and Gastineau, started out fine in '88. But #99 ended up leaving. But FWIW (again, FWIW) they at least rally themselves to a winning season, beating a respectable 8-6 Colts team who were still in the race if however slightly and then...eliminate the Giants in the finale to get that final mark to above-500!

If they don't blow two fourth quarter leads to KC that season (one ended in a tie, and the Chiefs won the other game), they go 10-6, and they win a tie-breaker with the Oilers and Browns for the WC (they beat those teams that year in the regular season). I think they beat the Browns in the WC game at home before losing at the Jungle the next week.

Also, those Chief games have other ramifications:

1. The Chiefs end up with the #1 pick and Troy Aikman if they lose those games.
2. Walton may get one more grace year in 1990, even if 1989 still sucks (and it probably does), and he doesn't go to the Steelers and destroy their offense.

The early 80's Jets will always be haunted by the two playoff losses. The first to Buffalo after coming back from 24-0. As crazy a playoff game as the 2022 Buff-KC game. Both QBs combined for 8 interceptions, though Todd did have the team knocking at the door toward the end. The vaunted Sack Exchange got to Ferguson twice.

The real mystery was the 82 AFC Championship game. Todd had a dreadful game, but why didnt he throw it to Wesley Walker more? Double coverage or not, the coaches simply didnt target him. Arnsparger deserves credit for shutting him down. Shula of course, was accused of cheating, by not taking better care of the field before and after downpours but the Jets had their chance for the SB.

74_75_78_79_ wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 12:23 pm I just saw the new 30 for 30 'New York Sack Exchange' doc. A great watch!

Brought back memories of me following football for the first time, and the initial excitement that came with it; and yet another reminder of how perfect their unis were. I've mentioned my affinity for the '81 Jets numerous times already. As much as I also look back fondly on Knox's Bills, I've always been saddened by NYJ's early exit that post-season. They're among my favorite one-year non-Steeler teams. Maybe I place them above the following year's AFCCG-berth installment because of it being the notorious '82 campaign, but even if the Jets make the SB, or better, in a full season, just the simple new-and-exciting first playoff berth (first winning season, period) in twelve years after starting out 0-3, I feel, would still do it for me.

I guess you can call that divisional at Cleveland in '86 the last such 'hurrah' of that era, But I feel that there's an argument for calling two years later such a "last breath". They, and Gastineau, started out fine in '88. But #99 ended up leaving. But FWIW (again, FWIW) they at least rally themselves to a winning season, beating a respectable 8-6 Colts team who were still in the race if however slightly and then...eliminate the Giants in the finale to get that final mark to above-500! And, hey, they finally beat the Steelers. '89, and the seasons beyond, were such an obvious-enough drop-off! No longer had that decade-long identity whatsoever.

I like hearing Mike Greenberg's take in the doc. He was at that playoff-clinching finale over GB at Shea in '81 and said he would never forget it. When I look at that campaign, I first think of that win over Miami. But if I could go back in time to see just one of their games, I think I'd rather bundle-up and attend that finale. The simple pandemonium and euphoria that must have been produced! Actually, I'd also rather attend that one than their 'tournament' win in LA over the Raiders a year later.

Yes, Walt Michaels much more revered in Jets lore, but after two non-playoff years in his first two seasons taking over, give enough to Joe Walton for at least preventing things from getting worse and at least returning NYJ to the playoffs in '85 & '86. I still to this day don't understand that collapse in '86 which, regular season wise, was much worse than last year's Eagles. For it to end up that bad only to then (unlike last year's Eagles) simply turn back on the switch and play well for the most part in their two playoff games.

'86 the only year ever that a Jets/Giants Super Bowl was at least flirted with. And in baseball, the Yankees in '86 were also atop the AL, eyeing the Mets across leagues, for a bit before faltering.


I know there have been such threads on this Jets era previously, but plenty to still discuss, I'd imagine.

When I calculated the main score percentages, the 82 Jets came out as the best team in that strike shortened season (seems like a good team but that Miami had their number).

Sack Exchange was a huge part of it, and Freeman McNeil was a pretty good running back as well. Richard Todd had his moments in 81 and 82 from the looks of it, but I’ve heard Ken O’Brien later in the decade was even better.

If the Jets had hypothetically had taken Dan Marino, they could’ve had Dan Marino’s and Mark Gastineau’s 1984 regular seasons on the same team.

McNeil probably would’ve been a better running game than Miami had in 1984. Granted one thing Miami had that would’ve helped Marino was their offensive line. How was the Jets line in these years?

SeahawkFever wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2024 4:12 pm

74_75_78_79_ wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 12:23 pm I just saw the new 30 for 30 'New York Sack Exchange' doc. A great watch!

Brought back memories of me following football for the first time, and the initial excitement that came with it; and yet another reminder of how perfect their unis were. I've mentioned my affinity for the '81 Jets numerous times already. As much as I also look back fondly on Knox's Bills, I've always been saddened by NYJ's early exit that post-season. They're among my favorite one-year non-Steeler teams. Maybe I place them above the following year's AFCCG-berth installment because of it being the notorious '82 campaign, but even if the Jets make the SB, or better, in a full season, just the simple new-and-exciting first playoff berth (first winning season, period) in twelve years after starting out 0-3, I feel, would still do it for me.

I guess you can call that divisional at Cleveland in '86 the last such 'hurrah' of that era, But I feel that there's an argument for calling two years later such a "last breath". They, and Gastineau, started out fine in '88. But #99 ended up leaving. But FWIW (again, FWIW) they at least rally themselves to a winning season, beating a respectable 8-6 Colts team who were still in the race if however slightly and then...eliminate the Giants in the finale to get that final mark to above-500! And, hey, they finally beat the Steelers. '89, and the seasons beyond, were such an obvious-enough drop-off! No longer had that decade-long identity whatsoever.

I like hearing Mike Greenberg's take in the doc. He was at that playoff-clinching finale over GB at Shea in '81 and said he would never forget it. When I look at that campaign, I first think of that win over Miami. But if I could go back in time to see just one of their games, I think I'd rather bundle-up and attend that finale. The simple pandemonium and euphoria that must have been produced! Actually, I'd also rather attend that one than their 'tournament' win in LA over the Raiders a year later.

Yes, Walt Michaels much more revered in Jets lore, but after two non-playoff years in his first two seasons taking over, give enough to Joe Walton for at least preventing things from getting worse and at least returning NYJ to the playoffs in '85 & '86. I still to this day don't understand that collapse in '86 which, regular season wise, was much worse than last year's Eagles. For it to end up that bad only to then (unlike last year's Eagles) simply turn back on the switch and play well for the most part in their two playoff games.

'86 the only year ever that a Jets/Giants Super Bowl was at least flirted with. And in baseball, the Yankees in '86 were also atop the AL, eyeing the Mets across leagues, for a bit before faltering.


I know there have been such threads on this Jets era previously, but plenty to still discuss, I'd imagine.

When I calculated the main score percentages, the 82 Jets came out as the best team in that strike shortened season (seems like a good team but that Miami had their number).

Sack Exchange was a huge part of it, and Freeman McNeil was a pretty good running back as well. Richard Todd had his moments in 81 and 82 from the looks of it, but I’ve heard Ken O’Brien later in the decade was even better.

If the Jets had hypothetically had taken Dan Marino, they could’ve had Dan Marino’s and Mark Gastineau’s 1984 regular seasons on the same team.

McNeil probably would’ve been a better running game than Miami had in 1984. Granted one thing Miami had that would’ve helped Marino was their offensive line. How was the Jets line in these years?

Marvin Powell, RT, was their main OL early on. Center, Joe Fields, comes to mind. I had his card as a kid upon following for the first time.

Funny thing is that despite Jets being more statistically sound in '85 than '81, 11-5 record as opposed to 10-5-1, Freeman McNeil having another of his great Pro Bowl years, and despite Ken O'Brien making the Pro Bowl as well along with having the highest QB rating and lowest INT %age, the Jets that year actually allowed...SIXTY TWO sacks! A team record to this day. And in that WC-loss, the Pats tacked on another 5 sacks.

It just goes to show...sacks aren't everything. Making a lot of them, though it helps, doesn't always mean you win. Allowing a lot of them, though it doesn't help, doesn't always mean you lose. viewtopic.php?t=6855

74_75_78_79_ wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 4:13 pm what names and examples can you give of the OTHER defenders from that time? LBs, cornerbacks, safeties? And what about special teams? Much thanks in-advance for any enlightenings and knowledge-drops!

Workman-like guys on the second level- the outside linebackers were bigger but kind of poor man's Jack Hams- were both from Penn State. They were roughly in the mold of Clay Matthews or Bob Brudzinski ... guys who played all three phases, made some splash plays but were mostly going to play the ruin and/or srop to their zone or maybe cover a back or TE ...

Blinka was a hitter ... some say maybe a bit of a cheap shot guy but I thnk that was based on one incident --

their free safety was good, a high pick -- I'd compare him to Johnnie Johnson of the Rams, tall, good speed, good range,

the others were just guys ... I think they benefitted a lot from the pass rush ... average-ish

I felt Lance Mehl was a good linebacker for a few seasons. Had 7 interceptions in 1983. Was done by 1988.