Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

This might be a weird pair of positions to ask about, but are there any older tight ends or defensive tackles that any of you think could be considered candidates for Hall of Very Good?

I ask about tight ends because blocking is something they are asked to do, and were asked to do more often years ago, and that appears nowhere on a stat sheet.

Similarly I ask about defensive tackles because how well someone defends the run isn’t exactly captured by any individual statistic.

There’s more to how they played than just that of course, but those are aspects of performance that don’t show up on a stat sheet and are often overlooked when we talk about players at those positions.

In particular I have lost count of how many times I’ve seen people rank tight ends solely by their receiving stats.

Dave Butz
Charlie Krueger
Hawg Hanner

Riley Odoms

Nickel could be considered WR or TE. Kramer from GB, Jim Mutcheller(WR?), Arbanas, Kocourek, Chester, Odoms, Giles, Jordan, Novacek, and later Miller from Pitts.

SeahawkFever wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 12:55 am defensive tackles that any of you think could be considered candidates for Hall of Very Good?

To me, the top older DTs left are Jerry Sherk. Larry Brooks, someone already mentioned Dave Butz, he's right there
But is 5 years is enough? If so, Mike Reid would also be there. You run into some injury-shortened or ladened careers --- Keith Millard, Paul Smith

Then long careers with fewer "Alls" --- Rosey Grier and Jethro Pugh

In the near future Le'Roi Glover and Henry Thomas will become eligible ... to me they are HOVG

JohnTurney wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 5:13 am To me, the top older DTs left are Jerry Sherk.

Sherk was really good. The early 70's Browns had an interesting DL of Turkey Jones, Sherk, Walter Johnson and Jack Gregory, but since its the Browns they immediately disassembled that group.

I think if we are doing 'deep dive' HOVG analysis, I would nominate Milt Morin for the TE spot and Jumpy Geathers for the DT spot.

JohnTurney wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 5:13 am

SeahawkFever wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 12:55 am defensive tackles that any of you think could be considered candidates for Hall of Very Good?

To me, the top older DTs left are Jerry Sherk. Larry Brooks, someone already mentioned Dave Butz, he's right there
But is 5 years is enough? If so, Mike Reid would also be there. You run into some injury-shortened or ladened careers --- Keith Millard, Paul Smith

Then long careers with fewer "Alls" --- Rosey Grier and Jethro Pugh

In the near future Le'Roi Glover and Henry Thomas will become eligible ... to me they are HOVG

Interesting picks there. Glover in particular could be a future HOVG being a 2000’s All-Decade Team player.

One player who I noticed when looking up the Skins of the 70’s as part of a project I did (and may reveal in another post one of these days) that is listed at defensive tackle and I think could be in this conversation is Diron Talbert.

On one hand he’s a player with almost no accolades (just one pro bowl in 1974), but I see 84.5 sacks, about as many for his career as Glover, and over his eight best seasons (spanning 1969-1976), Talbert is credited with 71.5 sacks.

That total over his eight best years combined is more than Hall of Fame defensive tackle Merlin Olsen (66), and almost as many as Bob Lilly (72.5).

It’s also more than Sherk (70.5), and Butz (64) have for their careers, and almost as many as Brooks (74.5).

Obviously sacks are far from everything, so how was he against the run, and would he be one of the better players in those years that wasn’t getting accolades?

SeahawkFever wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 3:06 pm I think could be in this conversation is Diron Talbert.

Sure --- I'd put him in the conversation, more in the Pugh category ... solid player. It just becomes the came question as HOF versus HOVG ... where is the line between HOVG and the Hall of Good?

I don't know.

You can get into Gary Johnson and Doug English and Louis Kelcher, too. Tom Keating ... peak kind of guys. Hard to know what the cutoff is. Shades of grey, I suppose.

Bob Trumpy. Raymond Chester. Steve Jordan, Jay Novacek for TEs.

Agree with English and Kelcher for DT.

GameBeforeTheMoney wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 10:27 pm Bob Trumpy. Raymond Chester. Steve Jordan, Jay Novacek for TEs.

Agree with English and Kelcher for DT.

Trumpy is a Finalist this year.