Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Two teams that I’ve been thinking about lately are the 1988 49ers, and 2023 Chiefs.

Both of them played solid regular seasons, but ones that wouldn’t necessarily blow you away, and lost six regular season games.

Both of them stepped up their game in the postseason.

My hunch is that the 88 Niners are a tad better given that their divisional and conference championship games were both multi score wins whereas the Chiefs only multi score playoff win was in the Wild Card vs Miami.

But I’d be curious to hear what you’d all say about those two teams.

I think the 23 Chiefs are a tribute to a very good defense and Mahomes/Reid getting enough out of the offense. Almost like the 81 Niners.

The 88 Niners to me are a bit better and more talented overall. They were sputtering at 6-5 and then went 7 for 7 in 'meaningful games', nearly all of which were convincing wins. The teams they beat in the postseason were all pretty tough. They kind of dominated the Bengals even though the game was close. If I had to bet on the 88 Niners v. 23 Chiefs, I'd bet on Montana with a small wager.

Bryan wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 7:33 am I think the 23 Chiefs are a tribute to a very good defense and Mahomes/Reid getting enough out of the offense. Almost like the 81 Niners.

The 88 Niners to me are a bit better and more talented overall. They were sputtering at 6-5 and then went 7 for 7 in 'meaningful games', nearly all of which were convincing wins. The teams they beat in the postseason were all pretty tough. They kind of dominated the Bengals even though the game was close. If I had to bet on the 88 Niners v. 23 Chiefs, I'd bet on Montana with a small wager.

That’s pretty fair to say. Also, a bit of a hot take I have (you tell me how hot this take is):

If the Steve Young run never happens, the Vikings team that allowed it is going to the Super Bowl and in my opinion the Bengals beat them.

SeahawkFever wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:45 am If the Steve Young run never happens, the Vikings team that allowed it is going to the Super Bowl and in my opinion the Bengals beat them.

The 88 Niners had a game in hand at the end of the regular season. If they lost to the Vikes earlier then the last game against the Rams would have been for a playoff spot, and I am guessing the Niners win that one. And if the Niners are in the postseason, they destroyed the Vikings 34-9 IRL.

If the Vikings met up against the Bengals in the SB, not sure who wins. Boomer Esiason was terrible the entire postseason, and the Vikings defense was pretty tough. If the Bengals can only produce 3 FGs against the Niners, then I'm guessing they lose to the Vikings 20-6 or something like that.

Bryan wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 12:35 pm

SeahawkFever wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:45 am If the Steve Young run never happens, the Vikings team that allowed it is going to the Super Bowl and in my opinion the Bengals beat them.

The 88 Niners had a game in hand at the end of the regular season. If they lost to the Vikes earlier then the last game against the Rams would have been for a playoff spot, and I am guessing the Niners win that one. And if the Niners are in the postseason, they destroyed the Vikings 34-9 IRL.

If the Vikings met up against the Bengals in the SB, not sure who wins. Boomer Esiason was terrible the entire postseason, and the Vikings defense was pretty tough. If the Bengals can only produce 3 FGs against the Niners, then I'm guessing they lose to the Vikings 20-6 or something like that.

If we are assuming the 49ers have more to play for at the end of the season and they beat the Rams, I could totally see them making the postseason and beat the Vikings anyway, but if they go 9-7, and miss the playoffs, then I’d take the 88 Vikings over everyone else in that NFC.

The Bears who the Niners beat in the NFC Championship Game lost both their regular season matchups to Minnesota.

Wasn’t aware with how Esiason played in the playoffs, but I see your point now that I look it up. His passer ratings in those playoff games were in the 40’s and 50’s and he threw only one touchdown and three picks, and he’d hypothetically face the defense that allowed the lowest passer rating of the 1980’s.

Esiason had a bad arm during the postseason that affected him. I don't believe the Bengals would have beaten the Vikings. They lost to them in 1989 as well.

Getting severely blown-out by San Fran in both the '88 and '89 divisional rounds makes it difficult to see Minnesota actually doing any real post-season damage in a world without the Forty Niners. Yes, this would be '80s San Fran at the Peak of their Powers (severely Historically underrated defense/Montana/Rice, etc!!

But that #1 Vikings D, both years, getting shellacked should mean that the team, as a whole, was missing something without or with Herschel Walker! I'd really like to think that those '88 Bengals were better than Minny that year despite Boomer, yes, struggling at least statistically in the post-season. But a good question...was he any lesser, in those playoff games, than any QB the Vikes had in their post-season showings? And then in '89, Vikings being such a different team already (Bengals too), were not as good as Denver in my, and I'm sure most people's, opinions. Steelers and Cleveland each beat them!

But without including San Fran's blasting of Minny in 1989, or anything from '89, just strictly the year before, let's see how a 'what-if' Forty Niners just missing the playoffs in '88 scenario turns out! First of all, it would have been the ONLY time that the San Francisco Forty Niners would have ever finished...9-7 (yes, learned that HERE; forgot from who, I'm sorry). It would have made for a 10-6 Giants at 11-5 Vikings Wild Card Game. An intriguing one that would have been (Hoodie/Sgt Rock defensive chess match)!

If Minny wins, they head to 10-6 Philly being that the Eagles beat the, in this case, division-winning-10-6 Rams during the regular-season. Yes, Philly would have been 2nd-seed! Vikings barely beat the Eagles that season; but it was early on. And the Rams would have went into the 'Fog' instead.

And waiting, in Miami, would be Ickey & Co! So you tell me how it turns out!

Does that Dick Lebeau/Floyd Peters chess match still take place?

74_75_78_79_ wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:11 pm Getting severely blown-out by San Fran in both the '88 and '89 divisional rounds makes it difficult to see Minnesota actually doing any real post-season damage in a world without the Forty Niners. Yes, this would be '80s San Fran at the Peak of their Powers (severely Historically underrated defense/Montana/Rice, etc!!

But that #1 Vikings D, both years, getting shellacked should mean that the team, as a whole, was missing something without or with Herschel Walker! I'd really like to think that those '88 Bengals were better than Minny that year despite Boomer, yes, struggling at least statistically in the post-season. But a good question...was he any lesser, in those playoff games, than any QB the Vikes had in their post-season showings? And then in '89, Vikings being such a different team already (Bengals too), were not as good as Denver in my, and I'm sure most people's, opinions. Steelers and Cleveland each beat them!

But without including San Fran's blasting of Minny in 1989, or anything from '89, just strictly the year before, let's see how a 'what-if' Forty Niners just missing the playoffs in '88 scenario turns out! First of all, it would have been the ONLY time that the San Francisco Forty Niners would have ever finished...9-7 (yes, learned that HERE; forgot from who, I'm sorry). It would have made for a 10-6 Giants at 11-5 Vikings Wild Card Game. An intriguing one that would have been (Hoodie/Sgt Rock defensive chess match)!

If Minny wins, they head to 10-6 Philly being that the Eagles beat the, in this case, division-winning-10-6 Rams during the regular-season. Yes, Philly would have been 2nd-seed! Vikings barely beat the Eagles that season; but it was early on. And the Rams would have went into the 'Fog' instead.

And waiting, in Miami, would be Ickey & Co! So you tell me how it turns out!

Does that Dick Lebeau/Floyd Peters chess match still take place?

Interesting that the Rams win their division, and the Eagles become the two seed.

Out of curiosity, the Bears would be the four seed then I’d take it? (both Minnesota and Chicago would be 12-4, and Minnesota would have gotten the tiebreaker).

If you think the Bengals could have won that Super Bowl, I could see it, but either way I still might take Minnesota over everyone else in that NFC after San Francisco.

Though Minnesota vs New York would be quite a defensive battle. The team that allowed the lowest passer rating of the 1980’s vs the Big Blue Wrecking Crew.

SeahawkFever wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 1:06 am

74_75_78_79_ wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:11 pm Getting severely blown-out by San Fran in both the '88 and '89 divisional rounds makes it difficult to see Minnesota actually doing any real post-season damage in a world without the Forty Niners. Yes, this would be '80s San Fran at the Peak of their Powers (severely Historically underrated defense/Montana/Rice, etc!!

But that #1 Vikings D, both years, getting shellacked should mean that the team, as a whole, was missing something without or with Herschel Walker! I'd really like to think that those '88 Bengals were better than Minny that year despite Boomer, yes, struggling at least statistically in the post-season. But a good question...was he any lesser, in those playoff games, than any QB the Vikes had in their post-season showings? And then in '89, Vikings being such a different team already (Bengals too), were not as good as Denver in my, and I'm sure most people's, opinions. Steelers and Cleveland each beat them!

But without including San Fran's blasting of Minny in 1989, or anything from '89, just strictly the year before, let's see how a 'what-if' Forty Niners just missing the playoffs in '88 scenario turns out! First of all, it would have been the ONLY time that the San Francisco Forty Niners would have ever finished...9-7 (yes, learned that HERE; forgot from who, I'm sorry). It would have made for a 10-6 Giants at 11-5 Vikings Wild Card Game. An intriguing one that would have been (Hoodie/Sgt Rock defensive chess match)!

If Minny wins, they head to 10-6 Philly being that the Eagles beat the, in this case, division-winning-10-6 Rams during the regular-season. Yes, Philly would have been 2nd-seed! Vikings barely beat the Eagles that season; but it was early on. And the Rams would have went into the 'Fog' instead.

And waiting, in Miami, would be Ickey & Co! So you tell me how it turns out!

Does that Dick Lebeau/Floyd Peters chess match still take place?

Interesting that the Rams win their division, and the Eagles become the two seed.

Out of curiosity, the Bears would be the four seed then I’d take it? (both Minnesota and Chicago would be 12-4, and Minnesota would have gotten the tiebreaker).

If you think the Bengals could have won that Super Bowl, I could see it, but either way I still might take Minnesota over everyone else in that NFC after San Francisco.

Though Minnesota vs New York would be quite a defensive battle. The team that allowed the lowest passer rating of the 1980’s vs the Big Blue Wrecking Crew.

Please excuse me. I wasn't even thinking about what was originally said about SF not getting in the playoffs, finishing 9-7, because of the Vikings beating them in their regular season game - and, of course, everything playing out as exactly is all did from there. Yes, that would mean Minny finishes 12-4 thus top-seed because they complete the sweep of Chicago on that final Monday Nighter.

Much to say anyway. First off, Minny winning instead sure-enough would have created quite the butterfly-effect. Not sure all plays out exactly from there through the very end. Does a San Fran loss, that would have dropped them to 5-4, jack-up a serious sense of urgency that would have averted they losing to both the Cards and Raiders the following two weeks?

And then the finale...Robinson's Rams always played SF best on the road and that final game was, indeed, at...Candlestick! BOTH teams would have had something to play for in such an event! No "laying down like dogs". Forty Niners beat the Rams in their first game. Despite they, as I always opined, "already" being the Esteemed 1989 Version by then, you just never know (but if they clobbered them at home in the NFCCG the following year...).

The other thing to consider - for the Vikes - that final MNF game vs Chi-town in such a scenario, would have also involved both having something to play for! That something, of course, being for the division title/top-seed! In real-time, the Bears already had it all wrapped up going into that game which, I and most feel, was the 'main' reason for their defeat (sweep) to Burnsie's Boys. How does it turn out with BOTH having something to play for? Who knows? Maybe Minny still wins.

Maybe I was too hard on the '88 Vikings in my last post this thread. Now '89 a different story. Most-likely due to chemistry (Herschel) issues, they certainly were a lesser team that, as I already opined, weren't even as good as Denver. And they beating Cincy in that finale doesn't tell what could have happened in an 11-months-earlier SB-event. Cincy such a different, and lesser, team as well.

Now back to 1988...the Vikings having home-field without San Fran being there? I really like their chances to appear in their first SB since '77! And, especially with Boomer playing bad, it very likely is a suspenseful contest to the very end! Boomer not so great in the post-season, but Minny's running game not solid either. If Wade Wilson could bring his A-game into that Super Bowl, anything could go! Again with the exciting LeBeau/Peters chess match!

Bryan wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 12:35 pm

SeahawkFever wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:45 am If the Steve Young run never happens, the Vikings team that allowed it is going to the Super Bowl and in my opinion the Bengals beat them.

If the Vikings met up against the Bengals in the SB, not sure who wins. Boomer Esiason was terrible the entire postseason, and the Vikings defense was pretty tough. If the Bengals can only produce 3 FGs against the Niners, then I'm guessing they lose to the Vikings 20-6 or something like that.

But San Fran's D, that mind you actually finished 3rd ranked, may have already been better than that very #1 Sgt Rock unit by the time the playoffs started or even prior (which explains why they walloped them, in real-time, in the divisional in the first place). San Fran played an amazing game in that Super Bowl! But Bengals playing them well was because their D "coming together" in Krumrie's sudden absence, but mostly because - simply - Wyche's familiarity with them! As the Bengals' HC, Sam lost every game to San Fran. But despite each game he fielding the weaker team, every game was close!

All that really matters in the real-time end, though. Is that San Fran in '88 made it through all that regular-season shrubbery and once those playoffs began...the Clock struck (January 1) 1989 and that was that!

88 SF played in a much tougher division

With that said, it’s amazing to think they were 2 plays (Hail Jerry vs NYG, Steve Young’s run) from starting 4-7!