Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

And what Canton QBs will he then 'pass' with a Chiefs win today vs San Fran making it three Rings for him?

This, especially, if he's awarded the game's MVP?

All that I'm about to write here being JMHO, he will not at all be on QB 'Rushmore'! As for my '#5' All-Time-QB ('4b' if wind blows just right and with a possibility of actually breaking into MtR), Bart Starr will still be ahead of Patrick even with a Chiefs win and he being named MVP. Yes, he'll still be the better #15 if only for just, possibly, one more year and if only because of...five World Championships as opposed to still 3 for Mahomes.

Going into this contest, I already have he as the thus-far '2nd-best' QB this century! He's already past Peyton along with Rodgers/Brees. A win today will underline it all the more.

Steve Young and Brett Favre? I think I got Patrick above them now as well. Aikman? A win today, of course, will tie them both with three Rings. Reminds me of that 'Brady vs Aikman circa Feb '05' thread I initiated a while back. Two totally different styles. Troy known for his mistake-free play along with leadership, but doesn't that also apply to Patrick? Don't let the obvious athleticism overshadow things with Mahomes being the far more athletic of the two! So I think I may already give him the nod there.

MARINO? Yes, ahead of him now as well if only because of the Hardware (and isn't there a #13 playing in the Super Bowl today in his second year).

ELWAY? Hmm, you tell me.

Staubach? Yes, Mahomes ahead of him too. Bradshaw? Now that may be another "you tell me". Four Rings, he calling his own plays, and at least three of those were close games where he had to bring it to lead his team to victory - each over outstanding defenses! And shame on me for forgetting that it was he himself who was the very last player to win back-to-back SB-MVPs! I keep forgetting that Montana did not win it in '88 vs Cincy! Others forget as well and to Jerry Rice's understandable chagrin; Joe being the one to say "I'm going to Disney World" not making it any better. Looking at his numbers, Rice was definitely MVP-worthy! But that final Joe-to-Taylor drive, fair or not, always historically overshadowed it all with me. Would Patrick need another Ring or so after winning one today to get past Terry? Or is he already past him? Yes, you tell me.

Back to that 'Brady vs Aikman circa Feb '05' thread, a win today for Patrick would, of course, not place him with Brady for Mahomes not only has one HOF-career, but TWO such careers, of Tom's to surpass! But a win today could warrant a Tom '01-thru-'06 vs Mahomes '18-thru-'23 debate comparing each of them after 'year 6' with each having three Rings already.

Thoughts?

Perhaps most responses to this OP may come after the game but plenty of reason to chime in already in the hours awaiting the National Anthem, I'd think.

Mahomes is a generational talent who will easily make the HOF but I cant compare what he has done or will do against the great QBs of other eras. The game has simply changed too much with defenses handcuffed at every opportunity.

Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce were never belted and hit running patterns like Paul Warfield, Dwight Clark or Dave Casper coming off the line of scrimmage. Some cynical people even believe that the networks want to keep Mahomes as the television Mega-star, after following the blueprint set by Tom Brady. Many times the media will say, "Well, he is on his way to catching Brady's seven SB championships" as if its just a matter of time, not realizing it took Brady 23 years, with many great teammates, coaching and strong defenses and also luck, to accomplish the feat.

Of course I, naturally, lean toward 'old school' ways - put more weight on it. But its simply an exercise in trying to be open-minded and "adjusting inflation"; applying the maxim, "best for their era". Maybe Kelce wouldn't have been able to handle coverage from Ham/Lambert, but we'll never know for sure. Maybe Tyreek wouldn't have handled Tatum/Atkinson nor Anderson/Scott, but we'll never know either. And same with Patrick vs those defenses or Doomsday, Purple, Fearsome, etc.

That said, part of my "you tell me" OP with Bradshaw was to avoid risk of being seen as biased. Honestly, I'll still see Terry as better than Mahomes if he wins today along with MVP. If only for at least another year, that is. 4-for-4, called his own plays...tough as nails! Perhaps a bigger tackler's nightmare than Mahomes is. Just that Terry didn't take off from the pocket (like a panicked runaway deer) nearly as much. Bradshaw is not a MtR QB, but IMO quite closer to it than most seem to think!

And Elway...I have to also place John ahead even if Patrick wins it (also, if only for just one more year). Elway was the total package! Had he, unfortunately due to circumstance, never won a Ring or won just one, sadly he's not in the convo. But he did end up going back-to-back. Yes, TD may have been the MVP of '97/'98, but John such a close-2nd and without him Denver wouldn't have won those. He suffered such an archaic offense philosophy in the '80s not to mention a lesser OL, no real run-game along with having to settle with the Three Amigos instead of Rod, McCaffrey, and Shannon. Even if you don't at all see Mike Shanahan as an All-Time-Great HC, he better 'knew' #7 thus incorporated his strengths into the game-plan/strategy. And after attending 'West Coast University', further bettering himself, be became that HC who could apply it to the max (win Rings with John).

Dan Reeves may have been a good coach (perhaps better than that); but, stuck in his ways, essentially handcuffed John and the Broncos from an '80s title or two. If only because they both grew up in western PA, idolizing those '70s Steelers growing up, I would have liked to see Marino or Kelly win instead. But as QB Class of '83 is concerned, I got to say that John was best. Maybe not by too much, but just enough for it to not be a debate.


PS - If Patrick wins a fourth a couple years from now or more, then I'll still place Terry ahead of him as the confetti is falling. But if he wins that fourth Ring next year...Three-Peat...yes, you're not going to be able to disregard that!

I agree about Bradshaw ... hell, I was a Cowboys fan and watched him kill my team along with the Raiders, Oilers, Colts, Broncos, Rams and Vikings. A great throwing, clutch QB who believed in throwing DOWNFIELD, which Mahomes does now, though most QBs today, dont do nearly enough. Wasnt Bradshaw 5-1 against the Cowboys in his career?

Brian wolf wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 7:03 pm I agree about Bradshaw ... hell, I was a Cowboys fan and watched him kill my team along with the Raiders, Oilers, Colts, Broncos, Rams and Vikings. A great throwing, clutch QB who believed in throwing DOWNFIELD, which Mahomes does now, though most QBs today, dont do nearly enough. Wasnt Bradshaw 5-1 against the Cowboys in his career?

Correct. And it was Craig Morton who was at QB for that '72 Dallas win.

Patrick Mahomes, now that he's engineered a couple of road playoff victories, has done just about everything that can be asked of of an N.F.L. QB. And pardon me if this has already been brought up (I'm a little upset that SFO lost tonight and as a result I didn't read this entire thread) but another thing to keep in mind is that as of right now Patrick Mahomes has lost only ONE playoff game to a team NOT QB'ed by Tom Brady (the conference championship game a couple of years ago to the Joe Burrow-led Bengals) which seems to speak well of P.M.'s chances of someday actually passing Tom Brady for "Most Lombardi trophies won" by a single player. Certainly Patrick Mahomes is young enough and has enough football ahead of him to someday challenge TB12 on that count. We'll see!

Yeah I don't think quarterbacks of today should be compared to quarterbacks of the past century. The game is too different and far more stacked in the qb's favor now than it used to be. If Mahomes played like he does now back when defenses were really able to go off on offenses than Mahomes would probably have a difficult time even making it through an entire season. Quarterbacks these days can run around there and know they will barely be touched.

And for that matter can you imagine what a quarterback like Marino would be doing if he was playing with these types of rules. Hell with these types of rules the Dolphins may have won even more titles during the '80's and '90's than the Patriots did during their run.

It's just not a good comparison.

P.M. has more S.B. championships than Elway ever got (which makes ME happy - even if I'm disappointed for SFO tonight).

racepug wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:32 am Patrick Mahomes, now that he's engineered a couple of road playoff victories, has done just about everything that can be asked of of an N.F.L. QB. And pardon me if this has already been brought up (I'm a little upset that SFO lost tonight and as a result I didn't read this entire thread) but another thing to keep in mind is that as of right now Patrick Mahomes has lost only ONE playoff game to a team NOT QB'ed by Tom Brady (the conference championship game a couple of years ago to the Joe Burrow-led Bengals) which seems to speak well of P.M.'s chances of somebody actually passing Tom Brady for "Most Lombardi trophies won" by a single player. Certainly Patrick Mahomes is young enough and has enough football ahead of him to someday challenge TB12 on that count. We'll see!

We'll see. Chris Jones will likely be on a different team next year though and they will have trouble signing other guys in the following years also. I have a feeling this may have been the Chiefs last ride for awhile.

racepug wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:35 am P.M. has more S.B. championships than Elway ever got (which makes ME happy - even if I'm disappointed for SFO tonight).

Yep. And Mahomes didn't have to square off against teams like the '86 Giants and '89 49ers either. With how different the game is these days they almost should just start an entirely new era of stats starting around '97 or '98.