Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

with the meeting coming up---I'd like to make a proposal to see if members
agree but I don't know what rules are and if it is appropriate or not or if majority agrees
or not.

It has to do with AP only.
When debating people who are AP only--I point to a few things.
First is the Hall of Fame. Joe Horrigan has said that they use Total Football
because it is (was?) the Official Encyclopedia of the NFL.

To them, it is official .

Also, I note to people the NFL-NFLPA CBA and what it has used in the past
for bonuses. Currently it is the AP and PFWA, but in the past it has used
AP, PFWA, TSN and in distant past the NEA ...

but all are in Total Football.

My proposal is that the PFRA have a statement that we use Total Football as
well, and the current remnants--PFW is gone, NYDN is gone, NEA is gone
but AP, PFWA and TSN remain...so essentially we recognize what Hall of Fame does.

Of course, when we write we can do whatever---I may say such and such didn't make
any All-Pro team but Dr. Z named him to his SI All-Pro team as a way to show the guy
got some recognition but I would not say that makes him All-Pro.

Of course there have been a few finds since Total Football that would have been in
had they been found...but not enough to worry about.

Anyway, if this is permissible and something that is appropriate I propose it be
brought up at the meeting (I cannot attend) and some sort of method set up
for approval---a vote of membership or vote of attendees or discussed
and then voted in next meeting--whatever is best way.

There is no hurry.

Also...and this is less of an issue...I'd like to see some sort of position
on first- and second-teams.

No one of course has to follow it, but many times modern writers
lump first and second-teams together, some of them are people
that art smart and that I respect.

I could be in the minority but IMO second-team All-Pro is second-team
all-pro and first team All-Pro is first-team all pro.

If someone says "All-Pro" the meaning, traditionally, means first team
All-Pro on a major team. And by major, when I was growing up, was
the ones typically mentioned in the NFL Record Book and later the
NFL Record and Fact Book...and now...I'd use Total Football as a source

Sometimes a second-teamer gets one vote. Sometimes the vote could
be 27 to 23...or anything in between.

So a second propose would be that PFRA recognizes a difference
between first- and second- teams.

Obviously, no one has to follow it, but I think PFRA has clout enough
to opine...if a solid majority agree...it could even be a 2/3 majority
of whatever.

Or nothing can be done...I just wanted to see if we could get clarity.

Also, we could add a provision that if someone does call second-team
the same as first team we press charges (make it a felony) and
recommend jail time.

Anyway...may the powers that be consider it...if it is possible.
If not, fine. If it is proposed and voted down, fine.

Appreciate any input. I could be in minority here, I don't know.

I'm in total agreement with your statement and I think it's a very sensible proposal.'

Literally my first post on the [old] forum -which later led to joining the PFRA- was related to "AP only" being infuriating. Essentially this very subject.

So I'd say I'm in 100% agreement with the proposal. Also a stickler for 1st and 2nd specification.

Probably doesn't have to be too 'wordy' and just a simple, "we officially go by the standards of the PFHOF, CBA and Total Football" or something along those lines. Someone can word it better but really only needs to be a straightforward 1-2 sentence thing.

Reaser wrote:
Probably doesn't have to be too 'wordy' and just a simple, "we officially go by the standards of the PFHOF, CBA and Total Football" or something along those lines. Someone can word it better but really only needs to be a straightforward 1-2 sentence thing.

Agree. If it does happen, concise and to the point would be ideal . . . it should be able to be communicated in a couple of sentences.

JohnTurney wrote:

Reaser wrote:
Probably doesn't have to be too 'wordy' and just a simple, "we officially go by the standards of the PFHOF, CBA and Total Football" or something along those lines. Someone can word it better but really only needs to be a straightforward 1-2 sentence thing.

Agree. If it does happen, concise and to the point would be ideal . . . it should be able to be communicated in a couple of sentences.

Not sure if the process is the same as when I was on the board, but you are correct. You need a clear and concise message that could be easily incorporated into the Bylaws. It would start with a proposal to the board of directors. They would have to approve it prior to sending it out to the membership. Once the board approves, it is put in Coffin Corner for the membership to vote. If it passes, then it is added to the Bylaws.

Ken Crippen wrote: It would start with a proposal to the board of directors. They would have to approve it prior to sending it out to the membership. Once the board approves, it is put in Coffin Corner for the membership to vote. If it passes, then it is added to the Bylaws.

Appreciate that. I will get it started with a proposal and then let whatever happens, happen.

Reaser wrote:
Probably doesn't have to be too 'wordy' and just a simple, "we officially go by the standards of the PFHOF, CBA and Total Football" or something along those lines. Someone can word it better but really only needs to be a straightforward 1-2 sentence thing.

This is the rough draft I will propose. People can improve it any way they want

ROugh draft of proposed verbiage of the statement concerning All-Pros
"Regarding All-Pro selections, the Pro Football Researcher's Association (PFRA) officially recognizes All-Pro teams as found in NFL Record and Fact Books, Total Football: The Official Encyclopedia of the NFL and mirror the standards of the Pro Football Hall of Fame and current and previous NFL-NFLPA Collective Bargaining Agreements. The PFRA also recognizes the distinction between first-team and second-team All-Pro."

I think Matt Reaser is right, no need to get into the weeds with what All-pro is...there are various names---All-Pro/All-NFL/All-AFL/All-AAFC. NFL Record and Fact Books supplied Total Football, as did newspapers...so that may or may not be redundant... someone esle can probably fix that==skilled writers will be able to craft the words better---but this can be a rough draft.