Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

I have only updated Justin Tucker---he's now 7th in both
and climbing....

88 in PAL and 90 in PAL2

Thank you John. This was a nice thing to do. Does this mean that Rupert's database of Missed FGs has finally been accessed?? If so will it be made available to PFRA members>

RRMarshall wrote:Thank you John. This was a nice thing to do. Does this mean that Rupert's database of Missed FGs has finally been accessed?? If so will it be made available to PFRA members>

I don't know about his database-I didn't use that...all field goal data is available on Stathead---which is what I used. You can
search for all 1960 to present field goals, good, no good, blocked, by distance or distance groups on what they call the "Field Goal Finder"

For pre-1960 we are fortunate to have Rupert's book but as far as his database, no idea. Perhaps, and I don't know, his family
has everything. Guessing that is only place pre-1960s good/no good data is...

But as I said, the Groza's, Blanda's etc have been done so only modern kickers need to be done to keep up his work.
But it's kind of a pain-

for 1994 to present using other methods you can do stats for clutch kicking, however someone wants to define it
last 2 minutes, game-changing, dome . . . temperature...

If inclined someone could do a pretty good study on recent kickers.

In terms of what we talk about here---who are the best, Rupert's book paints a good picture and gives
credit to the Bakkens of the world because it compares guys to their peers--it adjusts for era.

Adjust for stadium?

Sonny9 wrote:Adjust for stadium?

No, the Stathead search engine does not adjust for stadiums. A researcher would have to do that---- you know
come up with an adjustment they thought to be fair. It just provides the raw data.

A researcher could get the raw data and make whatever adjustments they wanted, in addition to stadiums
being domed or not, or altitude or not.

I think if they did adjust that people would debate if their adjustment was right and would say it should
be less or more. So they probably want to stay out of that.

But it would be very interesting if someone did that because if would affect how Nick Lowery was
preceived compared to Morten Andersen and Adam Vinatieri.

First, with no adjustment, Lowery is best-all time in Rupert's metrics and also in Football Perspective's
metric.

Second, Anderson played a good deal of his career playing at least half his games in a dome. Same
with Adam Vinatieri. Just under half his career was in very tough conditions, just over half in ideal conditions.

Anderson is in HOF and Adam Vinatieri will be.

Lowery was in tough conditions all his career, KC could get pretty bad, wind, etc. Not as bad as someone in Northeast
but come November KC worse than say, San Diego or LA or some other places.

But Lowery will never get in HOF...and he was just as good as those guys--if not better.

Sonny9 wrote:Adjust for stadium?

I just checked PFR.

On each player's page you can go to "Splits"
and there kicks are broken down by
home away and by each stadium
it also is broken down by stadium---dome, outdoor and retractable...

There is not search engine to pull up all kickers
but you can get all the data for stadiums
on a different page than the Stathead...


so--just checked--sine 1960s home field goals 73.7, away 72.5 so a 1.2% home field advantage
FWIW

Thanks, John. I was not aware of this information being online. It will be a boon for fellow researchers.

RRMarshall wrote:Thanks, John. I was not aware of this information being online. It will be a boon for fellow researchers.

I emailed someone at PFR to ask that they make dome, outdoor, retractable part of the search engine...
not sure if they can do that or not...but if they can't it's there if somone wants to dig into it.

Sorry, but I have to ask what does PAL and PAL 2 mean?

GameBeforeTheMoney wrote:Sorry, but I have to ask what does PAL and PAL 2 mean?

It is Rupert's metric for kickers

Points Above League Average

How many points more a given kicker has versus the average kicker given same number of kicks

the higher the better

PAL2 is same thing only more detailed...