Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

He seems to get a bad rap whilst HC of the Lions for post-season failures. But not all feel that way. I know its not saying much, but he IS not only the most successful - but by FAR the most successful - Detroit Lions head coach since 1957! Not winning in the playoffs other than '91 you have to place more on management, I'd think. It's too early to tell but their current HC could end up taking the best-since-'57 mantle and maybe (just, just maybe) lead the Lions to the very feat that they reached in that very 1957 campaign (as long as not at Steelers' expense, I am SO rooting for it)! But, for now at least, Wayne is FWIW all by himself and far, far away in 1st place these past six and a half decades for that Motor City NFL franchise.

What are your takes on him? As a Lions HC and also an NFL assistant (from the School of McKay - and, previously, McVay) beforehand?

Maybe there are things he could have done better. What HC can't have that said about him? And maybe Bobby Ross and other Lion HC's may have been even better had any of them been at helm instead during his time. But I heavily lean more toward the positive. Had Fontes HC'd for another, better-run, franchise I feel he does even better than just clinch multiple playoff berths, but likely more division titles and more CC-appearances!

Joe Schmidt is the most successful Lions HC since 1957.

Joe was 43-34-7 (.558) in 6 seasons, 0-1 in playoffs (oh, that 5-0 loss to Dallas still hurts). Schmidt quit cuz he could no longer stand Russ Thomas's interference and owner WC Ford's indifference.

Fontes was considered a joke by local fans for much of the time he coached Lions. But the team's been so dismal for the last few decades that his tenure now has this kind of rosy glow about it. He was an average coach and his below-average record proves it.

Fontes had some winning seasons but considering the talent on the team, underachieved. The defense could never be great, especially with a run and shoot offense but his biggest problem was at QB, where Peete and Ware just couldnt get it done. I feel Kramer wasnt the answer either but the team rallied around him. Maybe the Lions go back to the playoffs in 1992 had Kramer started from day one but Fontes kept going back to Peete and had a bad season, where every players play, went downhill. Whats ironic is that each season Sanders was there, the teams' rushing totals would get worse, until 1993 anyways. Fontes tried again with Scott Mitchell at QB but the team couldnt take the next steps with the Packers and Vikings getting stronger ...

74_75_78_79_ wrote:He seems to get a bad rap whilst HC of the Lions for post-season failures. But not all feel that way. I know its not saying much, but he IS not only the most successful - but by FAR the most successful - Detroit Lions head coach since 1957!....

The HC for the NFL Champion 1957 Lions was George Wilson.
Wilson coached in Detroit until 1964. Between '58 and '64 the Lions won the "Play-off Bowl" three times, making them (arguably but semi-officially) the third best team in the league from 1960 through 1962.
So I'd say "since 1964", when Wilson moved to the Dolphins.

RichardBak wrote:Joe Schmidt is the most successful Lions HC since 1957.

Joe was 43-34-7 (.558) in 6 seasons, 0-1 in playoffs (oh, that 5-0 loss to Dallas still hurts). Schmidt quit cuz he could no longer stand Russ Thomas's interference and owner WC Ford's indifference....

Yup. I'd probably agree with that.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... chmJo0.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... ontWa0.htm

JuggernautJ wrote:

74_75_78_79_ wrote:He seems to get a bad rap whilst HC of the Lions for post-season failures. But not all feel that way. I know its not saying much, but he IS not only the most successful - but by FAR the most successful - Detroit Lions head coach since 1957!....

The HC for the NFL Champion 1957 Lions was George Wilson.
Wilson coached in Detroit until 1964. Between '58 and '64 the Lions won the "Play-off Bowl" three times, making them (arguably but semi-officially) the third best team in the league from 1960 through 1962.
So I'd say "since 1964", when Wilson moved to the Dolphins.

RichardBak wrote:Joe Schmidt is the most successful Lions HC since 1957.

Joe was 43-34-7 (.558) in 6 seasons, 0-1 in playoffs (oh, that 5-0 loss to Dallas still hurts). Schmidt quit cuz he could no longer stand Russ Thomas's interference and owner WC Ford's indifference....

Yup. I'd probably agree with that.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... chmJo0.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... ontWa0.htm

"Since 1964"? That's fair. Forgot that Wilson was still with them in '62 which I - and I'm sure most - feel is not only the strongest Lions season since '57, but better than '57 itself; its just that those...13-1 Packers (whom they did almost sweep) happened to be in the way.

And I did have Schmidt in mind when saying that other Lion coaches may have done better than Fontes if at helm instead. '69 and '72 should each be "treated" like playoff campaigns. I'm sure he musters at least several more playoff berths had he stuck around some more.

Joe Schmidt was also the guy that told Garo Yepremian that soccer-style kicking would never catch on in the NFL and to take a hike. Bet he would have liked to have had Garo in that 1970 5-0 loss in Dallas!

Like Schmidt and Fontes, and basically Wilson as well, Monte Clark couldnt find a QB. He might have stayed longer had the Lions beaten the Niners in the 1983/84 playoffs but once Billy Sims got hurt and the team got rid of Al Baker, the team went into its ritual tailspin. I never could understand why Greg Landry could never become a good solid QB earlier but he never had the personnel around him I guess. More of a runner-athlete than passer anyway ...

I took it to simply mean best record since Detroit last won in '57 (in other words, 1958-present). Wilson was 45-41-6 (.523) from 58-64, but even including the '57 season he finished 53-45-6 (.541), still behind Schmidt. That said, Wilson had a perfect record in the postseason---5-0 if one counts the 3 Playoff Bowl wins.

As far as the Lions having Garo around for that loss at Dallas, I figure he'd only have made the final score 5-3. Unless Alex Karras or Wayne Walker hit a 3-run homer to win it.

Jim Caldwell went 11-5, 7-9, 9-7 and 9-7 for a .563 winning percentage in his four years with the Lions…and then they fired him.

JohnH19 wrote:Jim Caldwell went 11-5, 7-9, 9-7 and 9-7 for a .563 winning percentage in his four years with the Lions…and then they fired him.

Very strange that he hasn't gotten a HC job anywhere else since. He's in his late 60's now so the window is closing (if not totally closed) on him being a HC again. He deserved another opportunity somewhere