Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Two 2-time Lombardi winners who, outside their very championship campaigns, each won just a single other playoff game.

If these are the only two HCs available for you to have take over your team, who would you pick and why? And, of course, it would not be a 'bad' predicament at all in that both did win...not one but TWO NFL titles!

They both also won championships as assistants. A very close call. Shanahan was one of the first coaches to use free agency to build his offensive and defensive lines. Flores was great at delegating to talented assistants like Charlie Sumner. Both only won with one QB, Plunkett and Elway, though the Broncos had some success with Jake Plummer. Had Shanahan stayed with Plummer over Cutler, would the Broncos had done better ?

74_75_78_79_ wrote:Two 2-time Lombardi winners who, outside their very championship campaigns, each won just a single other playoff game.

If these are the only two HCs available for you to have take over your team, who would you pick and why? And, of course, it would not be a 'bad' predicament at all in that both did win...not one but TWO NFL titles!

Shanny had failure with Raiders, then success with Denver . . . then so-so with Washington

Flores took over Madden's team and won it in 1980, essentially rebuilt the team and won it in 1983, then underachieved (IMO) as you mention then second-act was not good in Seattle

Siefert (2 rings), kind of gravy-trained first ring, then a new set of players won it in 1994. Then, like Flores, second-act was bad

as assistants
Flores gets some credit for QB whispering Plunkett who was ready to step in for injured Pastorini
Seifert, major contributor to the 49ers dynasty of the 80s
Shanny, a very good assistant in a couple of places


Flores gets the HOF ring...to me it's a little bit like the HOF Qn thing---if Ken Anderson gets in then hard to keep Brodie, Theisman, Gabriel, Conerly and other MVP Qbs out, to be
fair it's all or none. Their cases so close, IMO too close to call. Same with Flores, Shanny and Seifert

I feel Shanahan should get voted in over Seifert but its close. Both helped Steve Young get his only championship leading the team but Shanahan helped Elway get two championships, when everyone thought John would retire, in a huge upset to boot. Seifert was great as an assistant but still had the great winning pct, though his roster was stacked. In hindsight, he might have gotten another championship with the team had he not been replaced, but it depended on Young or even Garcia, staying healthy ...

JohnTurney wrote:as you mention then second-act was not good in Seattle

I've never forgiven Flores for his time in Seattle. To say that it "was not good" is being MUCH too kind. It was absolutely disastrous. To me he still holds the "distinction" of presiding over THE worst Seahawks team of all time, the 1992 team that averaged a league-low (maybe even an all-time league record low) 7 or 8 points a game (and if you take out all points scored by the defense that season, I'm sure it averages out to even less).

Cortez Kennedy must've been pretty awesome to have mustered enough recognition to win Defensive Player of the Year playing for that pathetic excuse for a team!

As for "Shanny," he always struck me as someone who couldn't do anything w/o a superstar at QB. Sort of the NFL's answer to Phil Jackson.

Asking which H.C. I'd rather have between those two is a real Hobson's Choice.

Yes, Tom Flores's time in Seattle is difficult to look past. Still a two-time World Champ HC though. For me, and I'm sure for most of you, it is hard to gauge just how much he was responsible for those two Lombardis with the Raiders. Yes, responsible enough, at least. Being HC for two SB-champions is being HC for two SB-champions, but can't help but feel that AL had quite the heavy-hand in things! Only God knows the 'pie-chart' of it all.

But he getting into Canton (as a stronger, IMO, candidate Seifert still waits) I can't help but to see as even-more-so a floodgate-opener than if Ken Anderson ever gets in. I've given my IMHO take on the Bengals QB. His purpose, sad-but-true, with me is that he stays right on the borderline as a 'gate-keeper'. He cannot get in otherwise a smorgasbord of other (lesser than he) QBs now "have to" get in as well. Make that both he and Philip Rivers standing together at the gate. But then again, what difference does it make at this point with so many (right-or-wrong) "questionables" across-the-board already having gotten in as of late?

I guess instinct tells me that I should go with Shanahan being his titles were back-to-back and Bowlen obviously not being as hands-on as Davis. But then you can argue that he DID have Elway for those along with going up against two not-so-strong SB-HCs in both Holmgren and Reeves whereas Flores won against Vermeil and Gibbs; and lopsided victories vs both at that! I guess I still don't know. It's why this thread was created. Yes, I guess a..."Hobson's Choice" (I honestly never heard that term before)! With me it either goes 50/50 most of the time with the wind sometimes blowing in the direction of Shanny in the low-50s/Flores in the high-40s only ever blowing right back to 50/50 but never at all in Flores's direction - I guess. Shanny never did have as bad a time as Flores did in Seattle.

But two-time-Champ, Seifert, I think should have gotten in instead of Flores (or at least before him) as well as also being a better candidate than Shanny. Yes, '1-15' which is his obvious 'anchor' thus far; but really wasn't too bad in '99 & '00 at 8-8 & 7-9. And also, IMHO, he is a top-tier all-time DC. That, with me, really ought to cover-up that 1-15, and then some!