Super Bowl VI - VIII hypothetical

[Bryan]

Combining a couple thoughts here. First, as good as the 1971 Cowboys were, I think the Dolphins undersold themselves when they lost 24-3 in the Super Bowl. They were a much better team than that and should have given Dallas more trouble. Second, Gil Brandt said something like "if Duane Thomas kept playing, we could have won two or three more Super Bowls". So...

The Dolphins are the dominant team in the AFC. Duane Thomas keeps playing for the Cowboys and the Dolphins and Cowboys meet again in both SB VII and SB VIII. Who wins those games? The Cowboys made it to the 72 and 73 NFC Championship games without Thomas. The Dolphins beat the Cowboys in the 73 regular season.

[Brian wolf]

The bitter SB defeat and the hunger the Dolphins had in 72 and 73 probably would have carried them over Dallas even with Thomas running for them. The Cowboys were aging and in transition and Staubach was hurt most of 72 anyway. The Dolphins defeat to Dallas brought them closer together because they knew the heat of training camp and Don Shula's vocal fury was going to be unbearable unless they took care of business, which they did. The Steelers, Redskins, Raiders and Vikings had no answer for that great running attack behind that line and when those defenses loaded the box, Warfield was going to hit the big play, which is why I feel, he was the greatest weapon at receiver, though many had more catches and yardage. He was about home run TDs, not singles.

[Jay Z]

Even assuming Duane Thomas had his head on straight, I don't think that improves the Cowboys fortunes all that much. They still had Calvin Hill, and you only have one football. The Cowboys got Billy Parks back for Thomas, and it's hard to see them winning against the 49ers in 1972 without Billy Parks. Calvin Hill ran for 128 or something like that against the 49ers, what is Duane going to do, run for 200? They needed Parks because Hayes, Alworth, and Ditka all got old, as well as Adderley on the other side. I don't like those Cowboys as pass defenders all that much, that unit was underinvested and underperformed, and the Flex was no help if the pass rush wasn't gonzo. So Adderley got too old, and Waters and Washington were inadequate. Plus Staubach was too rusty by his own admission to run a full game offense against the Redskins in NFC Championship.

Duane might help in 1973 NFC Championship with Hill out. But then you have to take away Too Tall from the later teams, because that was another dividend of those trades. 1973 NFC Championship was not a close game. So nothing changes, because Duane's not getting them to another Super Bowl anyway.

As for the Dolphins, through 1971 Shula's teams had the rep of folding in big games. Part of the reasons the Redskins were favored in SB VII. Obviously the Dolphins were able to figure it out.

[GameBeforeTheMoney]

I got to speak to Bob Lilly at length about Super Bowl 6 for the Texas Sports Hall of Fame Podcast. Coach Landry had the team watch a lot of film on Miami, and that study shaped their defensive scheme, which was fantastic that day. I can't remember the exact details off the top of my head but a large part of limiting the Dolphins was Cornell Green's role. And I think specifically he spoke about in pass coverage. Again, I can't remember the details off the top of my head at the moment, I will have to listen to the podcast again, and I'll likely do a blog post about it now that you've brought this up.

Had they played a second year, Coach Shula probably would have come up with some sort of counter to that. And most likely, Coach Landry would have countered that. It's quite possible that Shula and his staff answered to that in the 73 game that you mentioned.

[racepug]

Combining a couple thoughts here. First, as good as the 1971 Cowboys were, I think the Dolphins undersold themselves when they lost 24-3 in the Super Bowl. They were a much better team than that and should have given Dallas more trouble.

H.o.F. G Larry Little (in Tom Danyluk's "The Super '70s") said that he felt that Don Shula should've used Mercury Morris more in that loss to Dallas and he (not surprisingly) also believes that the Dolphins should've done better that day than to lose by 21.I also can't help but wonder if Dallas used the previous year's loss as motivation in S.B. VI and I also can't help but wonder if MIA was a bit in "we're just happy to be here" mindset that year (although I'm not sure you'd ever be able to get any of them to admit that even if it's true).

[Brian wolf]

Its simple, the Cowboys finally were able to double Warfield throughout the entire game, unlike the playoff losses to the Browns. Like GameBeforeThe Money stated, Cornell Green played a huge factor in the game and Renfro and Adderly played well when Warfield ran into their areas. The Dolphins could have utilized Twilley or Morris more but didnt and Griese couldnt convert third downs.

[Jay Z]

Combining a couple thoughts here. First, as good as the 1971 Cowboys were, I think the Dolphins undersold themselves when they lost 24-3 in the Super Bowl. They were a much better team than that and should have given Dallas more trouble.

H.o.F. G Larry Little (in Tom Danyluk's "The Super '70s") said that he felt that Don Shula should've used Mercury Morris more in that loss to Dallas and he (not surprisingly) also believes that the Dolphins should've done better that day than to lose by 21.I also can't help but wonder if Dallas used the previous year's loss as motivation in S.B. VI and I also can't help but wonder if MIA was a bit in "we're just happy to be here" mindset that year (although I'm not sure you'd ever be able to get any of them to admit that even if it's true).

Mercury was never used consistently as a runner during the 1971 season. 27 of his 57 carries came in the two games Kiick missed. Morris gained over 100 yards in the first of those games, but was less effective in the second and through the rest of the season. He simply wasn't used consistently at all as any sort of change of pace. The Dolphins didn't have much chance with the ball in Super Bowl VI, running only 44 plays. So Csonka and Kiick were hardly taxed. Plus, both Csonka and Kiick had their best years, Kiick by far. Kiick was also a better receiver than Morris, and the Dolphins trailed for most of Super Bowl VI. Not surprised at all that Morris didn't get the ball from scrimmage.

[RichardBak]

What sticks with me is that, in the aftermath of that 24-3 loss to Dallas, all I could do was continue to wonder if Don Shula was ever gonna win the final freakin' game of the season.

All of this in an 8-season span:
1964---favored Colts shellacked by the Browns in title game, 27-0
1965---Colts lose to Packers in playoff
1967---undefeated Colts get bombed, 34-10, vs LA in game that determines division title
1968---biggest upset in FB history, lose to Jets in Super Bowl
1970---Miami loses to Oakland in div. playoff
1971---Miami crushed by Dallas in SB, 24-3

That perfect season in '72 and back-to-back SB wins redeemed his reputation. But man, the guy had the horses to win 2-3 other championships.

[7DnBrnc53]

That perfect season in '72 and back-to-back SB wins redeemed his reputation. But man, the guy had the horses to win 2-3 other championships.

1965 really stands out. That was the year that the refs screwed his team (the Don Chandler FG that should have been called no good).

Also, he lost Csonka, Kiick, and Warfield after the 1974 season, which was a major blow to Miami's fortunes.

[Brian wolf]

We all spoke about wanting Dan Marino with a ring on another thread but imagine had the Shula and the Dolphins kept DC Bill Arnsparger in 1984, could the team have found a way to stop Bill Walsh's offense in the SB ? In 1983 with Bill, the Dolphins and rookie Marino had beaten Montana and the Niners 20-17 but were upset by the Seahawks in the playoffs. Even had they got by the running of Seattle, its doubtful the Dolphins would have beaten the Raiders with their great pass rush, who stymied the Niners and Montana in 1982 and Shula and Marino in 1984. Teams could run on an Arnsparger defense but had difficulty throwing.