Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Why does he continually fail to make the HOVG? He averaged well over a sack a game over a span of four seasons, and his career wasn't that short. He was well known as one of the most feared pass rushers of the 80s, so it's not a case where the stats don't align with the reputation, like say Bubba Baker. He's one of the kinds of players the HOVG was invented for, and I am completely missing why he isn't in already.

Speaking of, Baker should probably get a look too; the only thing his resume is really missing is the reputation, but now that we know his true place in NFL history, that should even out over time. He's also a player who had a relatively short run of dominance, but while he did decline fairly early, his career overall was also not that short. Seems like a clear case where new information should obviously lead to a second chance.

I'd vote for Gastineau and Faison next time probably - not that I sort by position, but mentally I do try and go through and give the earlier players priority before I start doing the '80s. I didn't vote for Francis for example, but have no problem that he got in.

My recollection of Mark Gastineau is that he had a reputation for being "sack-happy" and for not playing the run. A friend of mine who's a fan of both the Jets and the Giants claims that those feelings are misplaced but that's what I remember about Mark Gastineau (as opposed to his "New York Sack Exchange" line-mate Joe Klecko who I think had a reputation as a good, solid all-around defensive lineman).

JameisLoseston wrote:Why does he continually fail to make the HOVG? He averaged well over a sack a game over a span of four seasons, and his career wasn't that short. He was well known as one of the most feared pass rushers of the 80s, so it's not a case where the stats don't align with the reputation, like say Bubba Baker. He's one of the kinds of players the HOVG was invented for, and I am completely missing why he isn't in already.

Speaking of, Baker should probably get a look too; the only thing his resume is really missing is the reputation, but now that we know his true place in NFL history, that should even out over time. He's also a player who had a relatively short run of dominance, but while he did decline fairly early, his career overall was also not that short. Seems like a clear case where new information should obviously lead to a second chance.

I don't know he has been "continually" denied as I don't know how many times he has been nominated.

One thing to keep in mind is who else is on any given ballot.
One might feel player A is certainly deserving yet not vote for him because player B is even more so (in that individual's opinion).
For instance, if it came down to it would you vote for Gastineau or Baker?

I often have a difficult time on my ballots because I feel there are more deserving candidates than I am allowed to vote for.
Give it time, I think Gassy will make it in, eventually...

Yeah, the real issue here is that the HOVG is 40 years younger than the HOF, so the backlog of worthy candidates is much larger. As for Gastineau vs. Baker, that's close statistically, but I might break the tie for Mark because he had the larger-than-life personality that made him a more notable name in the NFL zeitgeist of his era. Not an objective measure, but hey, the HOF uses it too.

Both are deserving without the postseason success of a Stanfill or Jones. I thought Baker stayed more consistent over his career between the two.

I remember Gastineau has been nominated in recent years. His former linemate, Joe Klecko, is in the HOVG. So I think it's only a matter of time. If I remember right Gastineau was not nominated in 2021 for the HOVG. It's a name someone might want to consider for next year though!

I look at Klecko's card, and it really just seems like he had two great seasons and that's about it. So Gastineau definitely should have gotten in first. Absolutely incredible that two guys on the same line had 20 sacks in the same season, though.

JameisLoseston wrote:Why does he continually fail to make the HOVG? He averaged well over a sack a game over a span of four seasons, and his career wasn't that short. He was well known as one of the most feared pass rushers of the 80s, so it's not a case where the stats don't align with the reputation, like say Bubba Baker. He's one of the kinds of players the HOVG was invented for, and I am completely missing why he isn't in already.

Speaking of, Baker should probably get a look too; the only thing his resume is really missing is the reputation, but now that we know his true place in NFL history, that should even out over time. He's also a player who had a relatively short run of dominance, but while he did decline fairly early, his career overall was also not that short. Seems like a clear case where new information should obviously lead to a second chance.

One thing comes to mind for each player. For Gastineau, the fact that he played next to another underrated player, Joe Klecko, might have something to do with it. Although I agree with you that Gastineau was very good, I think a lot of us think of Klecko being better. So, it might be a case of there was a bigger push for Klecko because they were both underrated to a degree.

With Baker, I think he's another one of those guys who played for several teams. Most of us associate him with the Lions and he played there, what, I'm guessing six years or so? Maybe seven? A lot of people don't realize that he played a lot longer and still was productive for other teams.

Though I now feel that other older seniors should get voted into the HOVG first, Gastineau will get his chance soon enough and with Klecko making the HOF, will get his chance for that honor as well but the question is, will the HOF keep at least two seniors per year after 2025 ? If its meant to help deserving players who somehow fell through the cracks, then you hope it stays 2-3 per year but despite correcting a wrong with Howley, it failed the deserving super-seniors and players before 1960 in its first year of this format. Hopefully, next year will be better but the queue may be set for Kooch, Gradishar and Sharpe ...