Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

I believe most folks would say Archie Manning is the best QB who played for a mostly losing franchise. I believe he has the worst winning percentage for a QB who started 50 or more games. What boggles my mind is that the Saints were terrible at drafting. I reviewed their drafts after Archie's arrival until 1979 and found only three who could be described as impact players (someone else might dispute that number, but that's the best I could find). Remember the Oilers were equally as bad in the early 70s (remember back-to-back 1-13 campaigns) before Sid Gillman got them going in the right direction followed by Bum Phillips and drafted players like Brazile an of course Earl Campbell, although they drafted and traded Hall-of-Famer Steve Largent before he played a regular season game for them. So, my question is who was in charge of player personnel for the Saints in the 70s. Remember, they once drafted a punter with the #11 pick in the first round.

vikingsfan1963 wrote:I believe most folks would say Archie Manning is the best QB who played for a mostly losing franchise. I believe he has the worst winning percentage for a QB who started 50 or more games. What boggles my mind is that the Saints were terrible at drafting. I reviewed their drafts after Archie's arrival until 1979 and found only three who could be described as impact players (someone else might dispute that number, but that's the best I could find). Remember the Oilers were equally as bad in the early 70s (remember back-to-back 1-13 campaigns) before Sid Gillman got them going in the right direction followed by Bum Phillips and drafted players like Brazile an of course Earl Campbell, although they drafted and traded Hall-of-Famer Steve Largent before he played a regular season game for them. So, my question is who was in charge of player personnel for the Saints in the 70s. Remember, they once drafted a punter with the #11 pick in the first round.

According to Pro Football Reference, John Mecom, Jr. was the temporary GM in 1978 and 79. They did take Chandler in 78, but they took Erxleben (the punter) in 1979 in the first round (that may have been his doing, but I am not sure).

Before that, the GM's were Vic Schwenk (1968-71), and Richard Gordon (1972-76). Those guys didn't get another GM job in the NFL from the looks of it (not surprising).

The Saints did draft Archie when Schwenk was there, but they also traded away their second round pick in 1969 to the Colts for Tony Lorick (the Colts used it on Ted Hendricks), and they traded Ken Burrough (their 1970 first-rounder) away to Houston.

Also, during the Gordon administration, they had first-round busts like Royce Smith (1972), Rick Middleton (1974), and Larry Burton (1975).

I simply keep forgetting that Archie's not in Canton! I know, just two Pro Bowls and his stats and all (sacked millions of times), but sometimes sheer common sense has to come into play. He could have not had a more unfortunate career situation (and then off to...Houston in '82)! I'm not saying that he was better then the ones whom I'm about to mention, but I feel pretty safe to assume that a Tarkenton, Bradshaw, Staubach, Stabler, etc would not have been able to propel any of those '70s Saints squads to a playoff berth either while, at the same time, being able to garner an extra Pro Bowl appearance or so.

The Packers had an agreement with the Saints for Manning in October of '74.

Bill Tobin, director of scouting for the Packers, had reached a deal with New Orleans for two number one picks and two number two picks (I *think* it was negotiated on the Friday or Saturday before the Saints were to play Atlanta in Atlanta, but Cliff does not talk of that in this column). Tobin flew to Atlanta to finalize the deal after the game but Saints starter Bobby Scott went down with a knee injury and Scott Cipa underperformed in taking Scott's spot, so the Saints backed out of the deal.

Two days later, after a Monday night lost to the Bears, Devine made the Hadl trade, to the surprise of everyone.

https://www.packers.com/news/trade-for- ... 4-16871671

74_75_78_79_ wrote:I simply keep forgetting that Archie's not in Canton! I know, just two Pro Bowls and his stats and all (sacked millions of times), but sometimes sheer common sense has to come into play. He could have not had a more unfortunate career situation (and then off to...Houston in '82)! I'm not saying that he was better then the ones whom I'm about to mention, but I feel pretty safe to assume that a Tarkenton, Bradshaw, Staubach, Stabler, etc would not have been able to propel any of those '70s Saints squads to a playoff berth either while, at the same time, being able to garner an extra Pro Bowl appearance or so.

\\Archie is not even in the HOVG. Neither are QBs like Joe Theismann, Jim Plunkett, and Phil Simms. Fascinating!

sluggermatt15 wrote:

74_75_78_79_ wrote:I simply keep forgetting that Archie's not in Canton! I know, just two Pro Bowls and his stats and all (sacked millions of times), but sometimes sheer common sense has to come into play. He could have not had a more unfortunate career situation (and then off to...Houston in '82)! I'm not saying that he was better then the ones whom I'm about to mention, but I feel pretty safe to assume that a Tarkenton, Bradshaw, Staubach, Stabler, etc would not have been able to propel any of those '70s Saints squads to a playoff berth either while, at the same time, being able to garner an extra Pro Bowl appearance or so.

\\Archie is not even in the HOVG. Neither are QBs like Joe Theismann, Jim Plunkett, and Phil Simms. Fascinating!

Hall of occasionally Good if you ask me.

Consider the What If scenario if Manning had been a year older and Terry Bradshaw a year younger. Assuming Manning goes to the Steelers in the 1970 Draft and Bradshaw to New Orleans in 1971, how would history have been rewritten? At the very least I'm pretty show Bradshaw would not have his reality TV show!

The first two picks of the Saints existence were strange...a FB from Alabama who the Saints planned to convert to LB, and a QB from Houston who the Saints planned to convert to DB. The early Saints drafts produced some good NFL players, they either never played for the Saints or the Saints traded these players away. The first draft also had John Gilliam and Dave Rowe, who were traded away, and Ron Widby, who played for Dallas and GB. The 1970 draft had the underrated Ken Burrough, Delles Howell, Steve Ramsey, Jim Otis, Doug Sutherland. Maybe not HOF caliber players, but all these guys definitely would have been major contributors to a team like the Saints. Their drafts during the 70's were pretty terrible, but they also had coaches who seemingly couldn't evaluate talent, either.

The 1970 draft had the underrated Ken Burrough, Delles Howell, Steve Ramsey, Jim Otis, Doug Sutherland. Maybe not HOF caliber players, but all these guys definitely would have been major contributors to a team like the Saints. Their drafts during the 70's were pretty terrible, but they also had coaches who seemingly couldn't evaluate talent, either.

I agree with all of those except Steve Ramsey. He wasn't a very good QB.

7DnBrnc53 wrote:I agree with all of those except Steve Ramsey. He wasn't a very good QB.

He wasn't very good, but he was probably better than Edd Hargett, Lary Cipa, Bob Davis, Bobby Scott, etc. But maybe not.