Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

"PAUL LADEWSKI
Paul has informed, enlightened and entertained readers with his lively sports commentary for decades. His work has appeared in the Daily Southtown (Chicago), Inside Sports magazine, Tribune Chronicle (Ohio) and San Francisco Examiner among other major news outlets. He also has authored books for Scholastic books and is a member of the Baseball Writers Association of America."


https://www.stadiumtalk.com/s/worst-nfl ... edium=hoot

Very interesting list. I agree with a lot of it. One annoying thing is that I checked the all-pros of a few of the players he mentioned and he seems unfortunately to be going with the AP only. He also fails to contextualize stats for era as in the case of Charlie Sanders, who I think is a good Hall of Famer.

He also oddly doesn't include two who for many years were widely regarded as the biggest Hall of Fame mistakes: Wayne Millner and Alex Wojciechowicz. All these years later, I still think they are both worse selections than everybody on his list. But definitely very interesting and a good discussion starter.

(I see he included your boy Fears).

Andy Piascik wrote:He also oddly doesn't include two who for many years were widely regarded as the biggest Hall of Fame mistakes: Wayne Millner and Alex Wojciechowicz.

For my money, Joe Guyon is a third guy in that group.

I think Canadeo is the most interesting case...someone else here at PFRA mentioned him as being undeserving as well, and I'd have to dig deeper into it as I had never really looked at Canadeo's accomplishments.

I guess when you have a list of 25, you are going to have to just throw out some names. I think having great players like Ray Nitschke, Dave Wilcox and Frank Gatski on the list is absurd. I agree with some of his selections as being 'borderline', but honestly I don't see many players on that list whom I would like to see kicked out of Canton. Fred Dean, maybe Hornung and Emmitt Thomas. We can hem and haw on guys like Bob Hayes, Ken Stabler, etc., but IMO at least there is some type of argument that can be made.

To me, non-HOFers are guys like Dean, Guyon, Milner, Wojo, Walt Kiesling, Floyd Little...only one of whom made this guy's top 25.

Maybe it's unfortunate he listed 25 instead of, say, 15 but I think the article is an important discussion starter. The fact is, the Selection Committee has made a lot of mistakes and further discussion about them can hopefully prevent or minimize future mistakes. Based on the performance of the Centennial Committee, there's a lot of work to do.

I listed Nitschke recently as one of three 1960s Packers, along with Hornung and Robinson, who I think are very questionable Hall of Famers. All three are on his list. Nitschke may be a legendary player because of the circumstances in which he played but I don't consider him a great player.

I would be even more definitive about Swann, Guy, Badgro, John Henry Johnson and a number of others on his list and say they don't belong in the Hall of Fame.

It's hard to know how much the various Selectors listen to outside sources. My concern is that this guy is a little too simplistic in his approach especially, as Bryan says, when he has a list this long. But some of the Selection Committee pay attention to the PFRA as well as to the work John Turney and the others do at his website. My hope is that if we keep underscoring who we believe are Hall of Famers, even if it's mostly just in the Senior category, then we can turn the Coverts and Carmichaels and Sprinkles into Dilwegs and Wisterts and Emersons and Gradishars.

I do agree with some of these guys, heck I even see the reason for Namath. Though he was such a mega star he has to be there (I'm biased too)

Swann I never saw as having a HOF career but he was such a key cog in a dynasty offense and numerous clutch playoff performances (the NFL films highlights that many grew up watching) him being there is fine

Grimm I don't get. When he was healthy, he was a Hall of Fame player. I saw him be outright great long enough to put him in

sheajets wrote:I do agree with some of these guys, heck I even see the reason for Namath. Though he was such a mega star he has to be there (I'm biased too)

Swann I never saw as having a HOF career but he was such a key cog in a dynasty offense and numerous clutch playoff performances (the NFL films highlights that many grew up watching) him being there is fine

Grimm I don't get. When he was healthy, he was a Hall of Fame player. I saw him be outright great long enough to put him in

The context of when he played only makes sense. When his career ended, how well did he rank at the time? You're right, Joe was dazzling when he retired. His numbers were not great at all, but then again, the rules did not favor passing games like they do today. He was also a big part of football history. Had his Jets not beaten the Colts, who knows how the NFL is today?

I don't think its a great list because I didn't see anyone from that awful centennial class

My focus tends to be on the '50s and prior and a few I've noticed include Canadeo, Trippi, and Dudley none of whom I recall showing up often on these lists. Canadeo was a steady player, but even his 1,000 yard season wasn't that impressive to me. The team lost most of its games - I think he had a few 100 yard games, but I don't think there was even one signature game. And not to get too deep into what has proven a sore spot, I'd add Dante Lavelli to the list. I didn't think Speedie was pressing either. Both had Graham, great team, team in which all backs and receivers did pretty well, etc.

I disagree with Doak Walker who does sometimes show up on these lists. One selection I recall the board mentioning is Walt Kiesling.

I think it may have been Andy who mentioned once some players, whose resumes may not look as impressive on the surface were given consideration for lost seasons due to WWII service, but I don't recall who specifically he mentioned.

@JohnTurney, didn't you pick JH Johnson in the fantasy draft? How do you feel about him on the list?

Finally, I never had a problem with Marcus Allen. I watched football during his career and thought he was a HOFer. Unlike Trippi, I don't think one championship game got him in. While someone on the board once said he was basically Johnny Hector, personally I think the Jets would have gladly made that trade.

Doak Walker absolutely belongs. The film backs it up.

Hornung also definitely belongs. I am really quite surprised that these two get brought up in this type of conversation.

I'd be more inclined to re-examine the worthiness of some of the modern-day players who benefit from media hype due to inflated stats resulting from the era in which they played. I have been reading on some sites that Drew Pearson doesn't belong in the HOF because his numbers look rather pedestrian ... these people obviously never saw him play, just like Doaker ...

I've watched a lot of highlights from the '50s and Doak Walker not being deserving never crossed my mind. I read that it was Dr. Z who said Walker was the least deserving HOFer. Walker's Wikipedia page shows this as the source:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/w ... index.html

which of course doesn't work. I checked the SI vault and there wasn't an 08-03-07 issue. Closest is 08-06.