Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Like Anderson, he had some good things. I just never remember anyone talking about his as HOF in his waning years.

His first 4 years, he was 11-11-1 on a team that went 4-27-2 or something with everyone else starting a QB, and he was solid for a decade with 3 standout years. 1967 you could argue he'd have been MVP if they voted after game 14. But by same token, if they did that after 1969 he might NOT have won it. Then a great 1973 season.

But 1970-72 hurt arm for 1971-72, 1974-77 nothing.

he was a terrific short-yardage QB, getting 4th and 1s and touchdowns on the goalline. Amazing arm before it went bad on him. Avoided INTs. but did fumble a lot.

Fun to watch...but HOF? For 3-4 maybe 5 good years (2-3 you can say were All-Pro level)...

Don't see it.

John, I think that's a fair assessment. For me, both QB and RB are very heavily represented in the HoF -- and with the exception of Ken Anderson, I'm pretty much okay if no other Senior-eligible player at either position ever makes it in.

Gabriel may be the best QB after Anderson not in (or maybe that's John Brodie), but if either were enshrined, it would just extend the boundary of who might be considered a HoF QB. With emphasis on "might." Neither is a travesty of omission, and FWIW neither is on my current top-75 snub list.

bachslunch wrote:John, I think that's a fair assessment. For me, both QB and RB are very heavily represented in the HoF -- and with the exception of Ken Anderson, I'm pretty much okay if no other Senior-eligible player at either position ever makes it in.

Gabriel may be the best QB after Anderson not in (or maybe that's John Brodie), but if either were enshrined, it would just extend the boundary of who might be considered a HoF QB. With emphasis on "might." Neither is a travesty of omission, and FWIW neither is on my current top-75 snub list.

yeah, Brodie, another one. Thiesmann, McNair, Conerly, Esiason, All-MVPs---all good stats, in general...just don't see it

Best argument may be that if Stable is in, then "Fairness" comes into play. Stabler, 4-5 good seasons (2 great) and lots of so-so seasons. And if he's in then ... so and so should be in

Floyd Little does the same thing with the RB bar. Little good, Chuck Foreman better. And then you get into the moderns who had peaks above Little...

And if Terrell Davis is in (super high peak) then Priest Holmes, Billy Sims, and so on.

id be ok if they focused more on o linemen and safeties

John, agreed with the sentiments expressed.

For me, Ken Stabler is probably the worst QB in the HoF. He’s on the short end of everything — titles (1), stats (meh), intangibles (Raider org hype, mostly), you name it. And that doesn’t even count the stuff about end of career questionable behavior. Like Floyd Little did for RBs, Stabler established a lower floor of HoF QBs. Joe Theismann, Charlie Conerly, and John Hadl are essentially the equal of Stabler in several ways (titles, stats, etc.), and I don’t really see any of them as HoFers.

Re the RBs and Little, when you enshrine him, you have to start giving a look at guys like Don Perkins, Ken Willard, Larry Brown, and Chuck Foreman. No thanks.

It’s probably better to see these guys as outliers rather than solid enshrinees.

bachslunch wrote:John, agreed with the sentiments expressed.

For me, Ken Stabler is probably the worst QB in the HoF. He’s on the short end of everything — titles (1), stats (meh), intangibles (Raider org hype, mostly), you name it. And that doesn’t even count the stuff about end of career questionable behavior. Like Floyd Little did for RBs, Stabler established a lower floor of HoF QBs. Joe Theismann, Charlie Conerly, and John Hadl are essentially the equal of Stabler in several ways (titles, stats, etc.), and I don’t really see any of them as HoFers.

Re the RBs and Little, when you enshrine him, you have to start giving a look at guys like Don Perkins, Ken Willard, Larry Brown, and Chuck Foreman. No thanks.

It’s probably better to see these guys as outliers rather than solid enshrinees.

wont argue there bachs agreed 100%

Good comments all around.

What I remember about Roman Gabriel with the Rams was that he was a big, tough QB who could stand in the pocket, Unitas-like and take a hit while delivering the ball.
Is that a valid remembrance? Does film bare that out?

What about intangibles?
Did he ever call his own plays and if so how does he grade in that area?

I am not arguing in favor of his enshrinement just remembering out loud and wondering.
I would've been about ages 3-13 during his time with the Rams. I don't really remember him that well with the Eagles.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... brRo00.htm

JuggernautJ wrote:What I remember about Roman Gabriel with the Rams was that he was a big, tough QB who could stand in the pocket, Unitas-like and take a hit while delivering the ball.
Is that a valid remembrance? Does film bare that out?

What about intangibles?
Did he ever call his own plays and if so how does he grade in that area?

I am not arguing in favor of his enshrinement just remembering out loud and wondering.
I would've been about ages 3-13 during his time with the Rams. I don't really remember him that well with the Eagles.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... brRo00.htm

I remember Roman Gabriel in the last game of the 1967 season in which the Rams beat the Colts 34-10 to win the "Coastal Division." Gabriel went 18-22, 257 yards, 3 touchdowns, source pro football reference. Gabriel's size and strength were obvious in this game. He would shake off pass rushers and complete the pass. I saw it on TV. This game had a big buildup, was anticipated the whole season.

The next week the 11-1-2 Rams went to freezing Milwaukee (13 degrees, wind chill -3, almost as cold as the Ice Bowl the next week) and lost 28-7 to the 9-4-1 Packers.

bachslunch wrote:For me, Ken Stabler is probably the worst QB in the HoF. He’s on the short end of everything — titles (1), stats (meh), intangibles (Raider org hype, mostly), you name it. And that doesn’t even count the stuff about end of career questionable behavior. Like Floyd Little did for RBs, Stabler established a lower floor of HoF QBs. Joe Theismann, Charlie Conerly, and John Hadl are essentially the equal of Stabler in several ways (titles, stats, etc.), and I don’t really see any of them as HoFers.

I think there is an element of "subjective fame/Namathness" to Stabler's HOF resume. He played a big part in some of the best moments in NFL history (Sea of Hands, Ghost to the Post). In an era where every NFL game wasn't televised, I think casual fans saw Stabler play much moreso than a guy like Gabriel. There is name recognition. Maybe that is the weakest of HOF arguments, but IMO at least its something. I agree that Stabler is probably the worst QB in the HOF (not really sure how Warren Moon got in, either), but I am actually ok with Stabler being the 'baseline'. He does have a place in football history, FWIW.

I just don't see anything with Roman Gabriel. I think there is a significant gap between Gabriel's resume and Ken Anderson's resume. I'd have an easier time arguing for Randall Cunningham in the HOF than Gabriel.

On a side note, there was a new Medicare/Medicaid commercial on TV with Joe Namath as the spokesperson giving the line "I guarantee it!". This is in 2019. Namath clearly is still the man and worthy of being inducted into Canton.