Al Nesser

[Bob Gill]

I've been doing some work on 1915-19, the years leading up the formation of the NFL -- the Jim Thorpe years, as you might call them, and one guy who caught my eye is Al Nesser. Of course he's one of the famous brothers who played for the Columbus Panhandles; that's usually the identifier attached to him when he's mentioned in a book. But he was more than that. For one thing, he received all-pro mention in each season from 1921-25, plus 1917, even before the NFL was founded. For another, he played at a very high level until the age of 38, in 1931 -- five years after the Panhandles gave up the ghost.

Nesser, born in 1893, didn't attend college and presumably started playing for the Panhandles with his brothers a few years before 1915, which is where my files start. For what it's worth, here's what I can document of his remarkable career from 1915 on. The numbers for each season indicate games played/games started:

1915 Massillon Tigers 1/1
-- Columbus Panhandles 9/6
1916 Columbus Panhandles 12/11
1917 Akron Indians 8/7
1919 Akron Pros 10/8
1920 Akron NFL 11/5
1921 Akron NFL 12/12
1922 Akron NFL 9/9
1923 Akron NFL 7/7
1924 Akron NFL 7/7
1925 Cleveland NFL 7/7
-- Akron NFL 6/6
1926 Cleveland AFL 4/4
-- Akron NFL 3/3
-- NY Giants NFL 5/4
1927 NY Giants NFL 13/11
1928 NY Giants NFL 4/3
-- Portsmouth Spartans 5/5
1929 Akron Awnings 12/11
1931 Cleveland NFL 9/1

All the teams he played for before 1920, of course, would have been in the NFL if any such league had existed. The 1926 Cleveland Panthers were members of "the Red Grange League," as that AFL is often described. The Portsmouth Spartans were a new team in 1928; after a dominant 1929 season against independent teams in Ohio, they joined the NFL. The Akron Awnings were among the better teams on the Ohio circuit in 1929.

What Nesser was doing in 1930, I don't know, but I expect he was playing somewhere.

[rewing84]

according to this https://books.google.com/books?id=ldLYA ... 30&f=false

he played for the south akron awnings 1929-30

[Bob Gill]

That makes sense, but unfortunately it's not true. I have lineups for all the Awnings' games in 1930, and Nesser didn't appear in any.

[rewing84]

oh ok thanks

[TanksAndSpartans]

Bob, I'm working on something similar for Frank - I consider him even more of an "underdog" because he's not even in the HoVG. Al actually started playing pro ball as a 17 year-old in 1910! By 1914, he had made enough of a name for himself that Jack Cusack recruited him to start the Ohio "league" championship game at RE. I'll attach the box score. The Chris Willis book referenced above has every Panhandles box score, so it really gives you a huge head start when researching the Nessers. I'm glad Al got into the HoVG when he did, I don't think he'd make it today.

What kind of project you are working on? That's my favorite era.

1914_box.png (245.76 KiB) Viewed 18827 times

[Bob Gill]

What kind of project you are working on? That's my favorite era.

Oh, nothing special. I was just putting together a register of the guys who played for the significant Ohio and Indiana teams in that era, and then I saw something else about Al Nesser that reminded me he'd played for years after that.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Oh, nothing special. I was just putting together a register of the guys who played for the significant Ohio and Indiana teams in that era, and then I saw something else about Al Nesser that reminded me he'd played for years after that.

Sounds good. A couple of the players from that era show up on the early All-Pro teams ('20, '21), but apart from Al, I think they mostly drop out after that. I don't think Thorpe had a good season in the 20s. I like Sacksteder in '22 because I think he really helped that team win the title. Bob Nash is in what I think is the NY Giants first team picture, but PFR doesn't show him playing many games in the 20s compared to someone like Al. Phil Dietrich floats the theory though that Akron struggled in those last 2 games of their championship season because Nash's contract expired and the commute was too long for him given his day job to play additional games. Dietrich was high on Nash quoting Greasy Neale and George Halas regarding him being one of the best lineman of the era. Charles Copley shows up having played in the Anthracite league. I think Driscoll played as early as '17 and Guy Chamberlain is rumored to have played that season under the name "French". You get a few HoFers in '19 with Halas, Chamberlain, and Guyon, but that was the tail end. The timing was just a little too early for most of them. Center was more of a spotlight position, but you never see Peck, Waldsmith, Rydzewski, or Des Jarden discussed with the great early centers (Germany Schultz is better remembered and he didn't play pro football). With all these threads on every football message board about Brady being the GOAT, I've tried to limit my posting, but one thing I mentioned was financial incentives. They just weren't there for these early players to have long careers or even show up for championships sometimes, given how late they were in the season.

[Bob Gill]

A couple of the players from that era show up on the early All-Pro teams ('20, '21), but apart from Al, I think they mostly drop out after that. I don't think Thorpe had a good season in the 20s. I like Sacksteder in '22 because I think he really helped that team win the title. Bob Nash is in what I think is the NY Giants first team picture, but PFR doesn't show him playing many games in the 20s compared to someone like Al. Phil Dietrich floats the theory though that Akron struggled in those last 2 games of their championship season because Nash's contract expired and the commute was too long for him given his day job. Dietrich was high on Nash quoting Greasy Neale and George Halas regarding him being one of the best lineman of the era. Charles Copley shows up having played in the Anthracite league. I think Driscoll played as early as '17 and Guy Chamberlain is rumored to have played that season under the name "French". You get a couple HoFers in '19 with Halas, Chamberlain, and Guyon, but that was the tail end. The timing was just a little too early for most of them.

About Norb Sacksteder: In 1917 he was the main offensive threat for the Detroit Heralds, who may have been the second-best pro team that year, after Canton. In the Heralds' nine games against reputable opposition (ignoring one game they won 67-0), Sacksteder scored ten touchdowns, more than anybody else on a major team.

He was outscored, though, by Paddy Driscoll, a rookie in the professional ranks, playing with Hammond. In ten games, all against serious opponents, Driscoll scored 72 points, including six field goals -- the first of many more in his career. He also played two games with George Halas's Hammond team in 1919, scoring 10 points on one TD, one extra point and one field goal.

[TanksAndSpartans]

I didn't realize Driscoll played that many games in '17 - he seems to be the exception where those "lost/pre-PFR" seasons didn't hurt his resume. I really like the '17 Heralds. Speaking of Sacksteder, if someone really dug into every game account of his longtime teammate Al Mahrt, do you think he may come out of it looking more prolific than Friedman on TD passes or would the coverage be too spotty or the competition too weak in a lot of games? If the Triangles beat some cupcake 100-7 and he threw 8 TDs, its probably not a really useful metric, but it would sure be interesting to know.

[Bob Gill]

Speaking of Sacksteder, if someone really dug into every game account of his longtime teammate Al Mahrt, do you think he may come out of it looking more prolific than Friedman on TD passes or would the coverage be too spotty or the competition too weak in a lot of games? If the Triangles beat some cupcake 100-7 and he threw 8 TDs, its probably not a really useful metric, but it would sure be interesting to know.

When I looked up the scoring for those seasons, I always ignored the games with scores like 67-0 and 48-6, and Dayton had a couple of those every year. But in their games against, for lack of a better term, NFL-caliber opponents, I found two TD passes in 1916, nine in 1917, and four in 1919. Games against pushovers could've added two, three, maybe even a half-dozen in a given year, I'd guess. (In 1915 Dayton played mostly obscure teams, so I have nothing for most of that season.)

Of course, passing isn't just a matter of TDs. It seems clear from newspaper accounts that Mahrt's passing was always a big part of Dayton's offense. I think it's fair to say he was the best passer in pro football from, 1916 to 1922, and maybe a year or two earlier than that. David Neft's partial stats for the 1920 and '21 seasons support that idea, too.