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The pace of change - CFL going global in search of talent

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:32 pm
by RyanChristiansen
Here is a link to an interesting interview with the commissioner of the CFL. With the new Alliance of American Football attracting talent, the CFL is facing a talent shortage. Apparently the CFL hopes to find a way to tap into more global talent the way soccer does and hockey has. And this makes me wonder, with American moms (and dads) increasingly reluctant to let their kids play football, will there be enough interesting talent out there to feed the NFL, the CFL, and the AAF?

On a related note, I think the CFL is exciting football, despite the fact they don't usually get the first crack at talent, and I think this is because of how the game itself is played differently. How will these three leagues need to change if they hope to remain competitive into the next couple of decades?

https://ottawacitizen.com/sports/footba ... 689c1ade68

Re: The pace of change - CFL going global in search of talen

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:08 pm
by Reaser
I never understand the -media fueled- panic about less people playing football.

There's over a million high school football players in the U.S. -- not counting the HS and Jr. football players in Canada.
The players being lost because parents are scared little Johnny could get hurt -which itself isn't 'new', parents being worried that their child could get hurt playing football is practically as old as the sport- aren't exactly keeping numerous high end talented players from playing. Just common sense on the numbers says hypothetical future professional players being kept from playing by their parents would be a minuscule percentage. Further common sense says the slight drop (we're still talking over a million teenagers playing football) in numbers is much closer to weeding out the weak than it is to losing future NFL talent.

College. There's literally more college football teams than ever. I think the number is around 300 more 4-year college programs playing football than there was in the 1970's. Every time some random college drops it's football program it's news and people freak out about how football is dying and there's not going to be any players for the NFL. Yet here in reality for every school that's dropped football in the last decade three more have added football. That's an increase, not a decrease.

Specific to the CFL. Roughly 45% of their players are Canadian, and a third of their players come from Canadian universities. So the American numbers of Americans playing football in HS and college don't have a 100% correlation to the talent pool of the CFL.

Also, a little early to put the AAF in the same catergory as the NFL and CFL. Obviously not stealing talent from the NFL, more a league to find future NFL players. A good thing. Much the same as the CFL, there's a trade-off in talent, player is good in AAF and allowing CFL team to 'find' him, just as there will be CFL players that goto the AAF. Similar to when the WLAF/NFLEurope existed. During that time you could see a player in NFLE one year and the CFL the next (can throw Arena football in that, even.)

Not sure about massive shortage of talent to where you'll need to unearth rosters full of players in Bulgaria to keep the league alive. I took the comment as nothing more than saying there's more countries than ever playing football and thus possible potential players outside the traditional areas of the world.

There's been other leagues before (example above), the USFL was much more major league than the AAF plans to be and the NFL and CFL both survived and there was less American college football programs, particularly major college (D1/FBS/FCS) programs producing players. Back then the 3rd string QB at a school like Texas or Alabama would be the equivalent of a starting QB at a South Florida or FAU today. Players that never got seen back then but every game gets seen today and more places to play and more opportunities to play. So even putting raw numbers aside, you can say there's more talent available because it's talent available to be seen and actually on the field playing football.

All that said, Junior College football in Arizona (WSFL, where I went to play) might be shutting down football (for cost) after this season so a loss of 8 or so Junior College's! Sound the alarms! Football may be dead as soon as next year because an entire JUCO league may be shutting down.

Re: The pace of change - CFL going global in search of talen

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:08 pm
by RyanChristiansen
No, of course, it’s not calamity. But we’ve experienced nearly a decade of steady decline in participation, which is why I asked for opinions about how things might need to change in recruitment at the pro level decades into the future, after most of us in this forum might already be dead. Thinking long-term. You only have to look at MLB for examples of global reach in search of talent. It’s not unreasonable to expect that the trend line in lessening participation will continue.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook/20 ... d48d783d98

Re: The pace of change - CFL going global in search of talen

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:54 pm
by Reaser
RyanChristiansen wrote:No, of course, it’s not calamity. But we’ve experienced nearly a decade of steady decline in participation, which is why I asked for opinions about how things might need to change in recruitment at the pro level decades into the future, after most of us in this forum might already be dead. Thinking long-term. You only have to look at MLB for examples of global reach in search of talent. It’s not unreasonable to expect that the trend line in lessening participation will continue.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook/20 ... d48d783d98
The decline at high school is a loss of 1-2 players per program a year -- again, more realistically losing 3th string JV players than losing 1-2 future D1 college players (or any NFL players) per school per year.

The level that sends players to the NFL, college football, has not declined. There's more teams and thus more players (and more importantly, more starters) than the 00's, 90's, 80's, etc. Not a steady decline, not a decline at all. People aren't jumping from HS to NFL, these 'statistics' ignore college football, the level directly funneling players to the NFL. There's more D1/FBS football teams, there's more college football teams, period.

Plus it's national HS participation numbers. Take a state like Florida, huge for HS football and producing talent, and they have more HS football programs and thus more kids playing than any previous generation. Not in a decline from a previous decade, that's increased participation. So when six schools in Vermont cut football, oh well. Three more pop up in Florida with the actual talent that fills up college football rosters and the type of talent that ends up in the NFL.

As for the comparisons to other sports. They don't really make sense. Soccer? Essentially every country in the world plays soccer at some level. Hockey, the most -or second most- popular sport in multiple countries. Baseball, the most popular sport in multiple countries. Football, the most popular sport in what countries? Growing the game internationally is fine and all and decades into the future sure, maybe they'll be a player from this country or that country but it's an American sport. It's not going to be the #1 sport in England. The talent pool will be American for the decades you're talking about and the talent pool isn't declining because two scared kids (or parents scared for them) per team aren't playing HS football anymore. Those aren't the kids that are good enough for college or the NFL anyway, pretty obviously.

Others have speculated with the "declining HS numbers" football could become regional, in terms of producing talent, similar to hockey in the U.S. where the talent comes from Minnesota and the Northeast with a player from Arizona and two from Washington and players here and there scattered around the country but primarily if you watch HS hockey in MN you're seeing the American players that will be in the NHL. For football, they speculate that it would be in the south, La., FL., AL., TX., Ga., etc. Which is where a lot of talent already comes from so not much would change in regards to the makeup of major college football rosters and NFL rosters. Though everywhere would still have HS football, and college football (again, which has increased, not declined), because good luck getting rid of HS football in the Trinity League, or my hometown in WA where HS football is all that matters, or HS football in Ohio, or PA, or Michigan, etc.

Losing 1-2 kids, a majority who aren't really playing football and are just on the team to be on the team and never play, per HS isn't a big deal. And neither are the other reasons for less HS players, primarily specialization. Whatever kid currently in HS that is "LeBron James" isn't playing HS football like LeBron did, he's playing basketball year round in this generation.

Here in WA, one of the best football programs last year had a Fr. QB who was/is very good. Stopped playing football this year before his So. year because he's a 6'8" dominant basketball player who's going to play D1 college basketball in 3 years. So now he's playing in an 'elite' basketball league in the fall instead of playing HS football. Decreasing numbers in football? Or kids choosing their sport at an earlier age than previous generations? Exactly. And that's also large part of so-called decreasing numbers, basketball players and baseball players who also used to play football in HS in previous era's are much less likely to be multi-sport athletes now.

However, that is not a decrease in the future football players talent pool. it doesn't mean the pool of football players has decreased, because football players are still playing football. The loss is athletes who are good at other sports and no longer playing their 2nd or 3rd best sport (football) and including the players that aren't good that used to just make up the numbers of a HS football program (backup Fr. team players) does not mean the talent pool is shallower. Basketball players are basketball players. Football players are football players. Kids that aren't good at football but were allowed to suit up and stand on the sideline, there's a couple less of them now. So we can hypothesize about decades from now but for the foreseeable future I see no evidence that anything has really changed in terms of the overall pool of football players for colleges to choose from and then the NFL to choose from those colleges. If anything, it hasn't declined, because more HS football players get to play in college now so there's actually more opportunities to get seen by the NFL.

Re: The pace of change - CFL going global in search of talen

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:33 pm
by Jay Z
One factor is that football is easier to learn than other sports. A top player with appropriate football skills will nearly immediately outclass his opposition with very little experience in the game. So foreign recruitment is certainly an option.

Re: The pace of change - CFL going global in search of talen

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:39 am
by Mark L. Ford
RyanChristiansen wrote:Here is a link to an interesting interview with the commissioner of the CFL. With the new Alliance of American Football attracting talent, the CFL is facing a talent shortage.
Commissioner Ambrosie of the CFL is doing his job by getting the league into the news, I guess. But I'm sorry, Mr. A., a league that plays its season from February to April isn't "taking away talent" or fans from a league that whose training camp starts in May and whose Grey Cup wraps up the season in November.

Re: The pace of change - CFL going global in search of talen

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:33 am
by RyanChristiansen
Mark L. Ford wrote:Commissioner Ambrosie of the CFL is doing his job by getting the league into the news, I guess. But I'm sorry, Mr. A., a league that plays its season from February to April isn't "taking away talent" or fans from a league that whose training camp starts in May and whose Grey Cup wraps up the season in November.
If this wasn't an issue for the CFL, why would there be articles like this one where Johnny Manziel pledges to honor his CFL contract instead of play for the AAF?

http://www.americanfootballinternationa ... alouettes/