Reggie Roby HOVG? HOF?

[JohnTurney]

2-time All-Pro, 3-time Second-team All-Pro, 3 Pro Bowls, second-team All-Decade



Usually above the average in net yards per punt.

Touchback ratio was usually above average but two really above the avg.

[JuggernautJ]

Reggie Roby is who came to my mind while I was reading the previous (Shane Lechler) thread.

That 1997 spike is crazy... so 25% of his punts were either touchbacks or out of bounds inside the 20...
that's just amazing... beyond amazing...

But I am of the opinion we need very, very few kickers in the Hall of Fame.
Maybe after Duke Slater and Mac Speedie and about a dozen other old timers are in would I get around to more kickers (but I know that's just me).

I would certainly consider voting for Roby for our Hall of the Very Good.

[JohnTurney]

Reggie Roby is who came to my mind while I was reading the previous (Shane Lechler) thread.

That 1997 spike is crazy... so 25% of his punts were either touchbacks or out of bounds inside the 20...
that's just amazing... beyond amazing...

But I am of the opinion we need very, very few kickers in the Hall of Fame.
Maybe after Duke Slater and Mac Speedie and about a dozen other old timers are in would I get around to more kickers (but I know that's just me).

I would certainly consider voting for Roby for our Hall of the Very Good.

not 25% but a total of 25 and he had just one touchback, therefore ratio is 25-1

[sluggermatt15]

Let me ask a dumb question.

What are fair metrics to measure how good a punter is? I think it could be a gray area where stats like net punt yards and touchbacks can be misleading. Net punt yards because part of that is determined based on the quality of the coverage team. If they aren't good, that can hurt the image of the punter on that measurement. I would think less touchbacks is better because that is simply increasing field position for the opposition. This especially the case when trying to pin the opponent deep in their territory. Where, a touchback in that situation, is a missed or failed opportunity.

What do you guys think?

[JWL]

The best metric hasn't been made into a statistic yet. There should be something regarding the best possible outcome for each punt. For example, Joe Mama punts from the 50-yard line. The best outcome is the punt pins the opponent at the 1-yard line. A touchback, in this particular scenario, would not even really be good. A touchback could be scored as a -19. If the punt is returned and the returner takes it to his team's 30 yard line, then you could score it a -29.

I'm just throwing something quick out there. I think the punting stats as they exist now need a ton of context.

[JohnTurney]

The best metric hasn't been made into a statistic yet. There should be something regarding the best possible outcome for each punt. For example, Joe Mama punts from the 50-yard line. The best outcome is the punt pins the opponent at the 1-yard line. A touchback, in this particular scenario, would not even really be good. A touchback could be scored as a -19. If the punt is returned and the returner takes it to his team's 30 yard line, then you could score it a -29.

I'm just throwing something quick out there. I think the punting stats as they exist now need a ton of context.

However I would suggest getting it downed on the 1 is perfect, and hard, and risky because how many perfect punts got kicked into the end zone by two guys trying to down it. Like anything, seeing the film would be only way to grade each punt. In bad winds a 35-yard punt may be perfect and in a dome an 81-yard punt that goes into the endzone with a net of 61 is less than desirable even though a 61 net is off the charts great.

Ray Guy's "save" is interesting in that with a snap that bad, just getting a punt off is perfect, or at least the best than can be expected.

[JWL]

Yeah, it's too hard to properly judge punters without actually watching them.

The idea I had above was something I've thought about in the past but I never developed a metric that would be ideal. If you used the very simplistic setup I outlined above, the guy who led the league in punts in a given year would probably almost automatically be the leader in the most yards wasted or lost.

The punting stats we have to work with do not tell us too much outside of the number of punts which might best reveal the quality of the punter's team's offense.

[sluggermatt15]

John and JWL, very good thoughts!

I would think a stat such as, # of punts inside 20 yard line is some indicator of performance. Take that and compare it against # of touchbacks and it gives a sense of the punter's ability to pin the opposition. However, the touchbacks would not account for the situation of a player booming a 60 yard punt that finds its way into the end zone.

Thus, I think it is very difficult to judge a punter (one who just punts and does not play another position) solely by the current metrics for the HoF. Some of the guys who are currently under debate or currently in the HoF played multiple positions as punter was one of them. It so happens they were extremely athletic and were all over the field.

[Gary Najman]

Roby is my favorite punter I've ever seen, and I also think he should be in the HOVG. I liked very much how his left (non-kicking) foot never left the ground. I doubt another punter has done that since.

[Rupert Patrick]

Yeah, it's too hard to properly judge punters without actually watching them.

The idea I had above was something I've thought about in the past but I never developed a metric that would be ideal. If you used the very simplistic setup I outlined above, the guy who led the league in punts in a given year would probably almost automatically be the leader in the most yards wasted or lost.

The punting stats we have to work with do not tell us too much outside of the number of punts which might best reveal the quality of the punter's team's offense.

I think there is a logic to this, in that if you have two punters, and one punts from (line of scrimmage) midfield, and the other punts from (line of scrimmage) his own 45-yard line (which is 55 yards from the end zone he is punting towards, and both get off 45-yard punts which are fair caught. In this example, the first one should rate higher because he only had 50 yards (plus the 15 or so yards behind the line of scrimmage) and his punt took up 45 of those 50 yards where it was not returned, while the second punt traveled 45 yards from the opposing 45-yard line to the 10-yard line, with the punt having taken up 45 of the 55 available yards. I wonder if such an approach could be used to rate punters.

Roby, by the way, also wore a wristwatch, which he used to check the hang time on his punts.