Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

http://www.talkoffamenetwork.com/rick-g ... eams-unit/

RICK GOSSELIN’S ALL-TIME NFL SPECIAL TEAMS UNIT

FIRST TEAM
Placement Kicker: Adam Vinatieri.
Holder: Nolan Cromwell.
Kickoffs: Morten Anderson
Punter: Ray Guy
Personal protector: John Lynch.
Long snapper: Steve DeOssie. .
Coverage: Steve Tasker.
Coverage: Matthew Slater.
Coverage: Michael Bates.
Coverage: Elbert Shelley.
Coverage: Ron Wolfley.
Coverage: Larry Izzo.
Coverage: Bennie Thompson.
Coverage: Reyna Thompson.
Coverage: Bill Bates. .
Coverage: Hank Bauer.
Kickoff returner: Gale Sayers. .
Punt returner: Devin Hester.
Interior kick blocker: Ted Hendricks
Interior kick blocker: Matt Blair
Edge kick blocker: Albert Lewis.
Edge kick blocker: Eddie Meador

SECOND TEAM
Kicker: Jan Stenerud.
Holder: Brad Maynard.
Kickoffs: Lee Johnson.
Punter: Shane Lechler.
Personal protector: Brian Mitchell.
Deep snapper: Patrick Mannelly.
Coverage: Justin Bethel.
Coverage: Kassim Osgood.
Coverage: Brendon Ayanbadejo.
Coverage: Larry Whigham.
Coverage: Montell Owens.
Coverage: Rufus Porter.
Coverage: Mosi Tatupu.
Coverage: Fredd Young.
Coverage: Sean Morey.
Coverage: Fred McAfee.
Kickoff returner: Josh Cribbs.
Punt returner: Billy “White Shoes” Johnson.
Interior kick blocker: Alan Page.
Interior kick blocker: Shaun Rogers.
Edge kick blocker: Ed Reed.
Edge kick blocker: Jack Youngblood.

Rounding out a 53-player roster:
Placement kicker: Jason Hanson.
Holder: Paul Krause.
Punter: Jerrel Wilson.
Deep snapper: Don Muhlbach.
Punt returner: Rick Upchurch.
Kickoff returner: Mel Gray.
Covrage: Mark Pike.
Coverage: Hardy Brown.
Interior kick blocker: Julius Peppers




Goose does a great job in his article, though there are some disagreements. Nonetheless, very complete lists.

Still very excited for Ruppert Patricks's book about kickers. I have taken a look at punters.

I think David Humm on one of top 2 holders ever . .. but that's just my view, there were plenty of others.

I think Lowery is one of top 2 kickers, based on stats, his kicking environment, etc...

Not a fan of Lechler or Jerrell Wilson,. Wilson had too many blocked...I know he was All-AFL, but looking back, there were better AFL punters and better punters to honor. Lechler, like Sauerbrun, Stark, had big gap between net and gross.

Dave Whitsell should be first team edge blocker...some of his stats are "coaches stats" Mark Pike had about have as many tackles according to gamebooks as he does from the coaches film study...

anyway, overwhelmingly a good article

Mark Pike

Strange for a Dallas writer to omit Kenny Gant.

Eric Metcalf has to be there somewhere. 10 punt returns for TD's

Not heavily knowledgeable on this, though I’d likely consider the following:

Trey Junkin—LS
Bob St. Clair—kick blocker
Bobby Franklin—holder
Deion Sanders, Abe Woodson, Lemar Parrish, Jack Christensen—KR
Sammy Baugh, Tommy Davis, Verne Lewellen, Horace Gillom, Sam Baker, Don Chandler—punter
Nick Lowery, Lou Groza, Gary Anderson—PK
Alex Hawkins, Lou Piccone—gunner

There have got to be other gunners pre-1980 to consider as well.

JohnTurney wrote:http://www.talkoffamenetwork.com/rick-g ... eams-unit/

Still very excited for Ruppert Patricks's book about kickers.

It's just one chapter of the manuscript, actually, but the chapter I spent more time researching than all the other chapters, combined. There are also chapters on Home Field Advantage, Estimated Winning Percentage, systems for evaluating running backs and passers, the effects of kicking and punting in Denver and at Heinz Field, the concept of momentum in pro football, a system for predicting how a team will perform in an upcoming season based on historical parallels, a system for evaluating and ranking dynasties, and a system for predicting the winners of postseason games, among other things. It is currently being reviewed by a publisher.

bachslunch wrote: Alex Hawkins, Lou Piccone—gunner

There have got to be other gunners pre-1980 to consider as well.

All good names...Alex Hawkins wasn't a gunner. More of an up back, not a presonal protector, but next to center, they didn't use gunners back then...but he was in on a lot of tackles. Most underrated punter, so far in my reseach is Bobby Joe green. Good net, few blocked...played in tough home stadium...Mike McDOnald and Rich Saul were good long snappers, Len Hauss, Dan Ryzek, etc...Steve Dils was good holder for Vikings

Ivory Sully not really known, but excellent kick and punt blocker, good gunner, good CB on put return, taking on the opposing gunners, could return a kick in a pinch...from 1979-84 he was as good a special team player as there was in the NFL, then went to TB and Lions, was good there, too

here is my take on subject

Rupert Patrick wrote:

JohnTurney wrote:http://www.talkoffamenetwork.com/rick-g ... eams-unit/

Still very excited for Ruppert Patricks's book about kickers.

er things. It is currently being reviewed by a publisher.

Awsome...

Rupert Patrick wrote:

JohnTurney wrote:http://www.talkoffamenetwork.com/rick-g ... eams-unit/

Still very excited for Ruppert Patricks's book about kickers.

It's just one chapter of the manuscript, actually, but the chapter I spent more time researching than all the other chapters, combined. There are also chapters on Home Field Advantage, Estimated Winning Percentage, systems for evaluating running backs and passers, the effects of kicking and punting in Denver and at Heinz Field, the concept of momentum in pro football, a system for predicting how a team will perform in an upcoming season based on historical parallels, a system for evaluating and ranking dynasties, and a system for predicting the winners of postseason games, among other things. It is currently being reviewed by a publisher.

Sounds like an interesting book, particularly the pieces on predicting. The main weakness of all the analytics (like Pro Football Focus, etc.) out there these days is that they are backward looking. Their systems fail or are entirely useless looking forward.

It is easy to fit completely different explanations to the observed facts. I don't trust any interpretation of reality that isn't able to predict.

Hope you find a publisher.

I saw that Gosselin had Vinatieri as the first team placement kicker, and this goes back to another recent thread where I argued that Vinatieri will be a first ballot Hall of Famer, and it seems that many of the modern football writers who have covered his career and vote for the HOF (I don't know if Gosselin is a HOF voter) are already starting to proclaim him the greatest kicker ever.