Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

lot of 4- and 3-time All-pros on outside looking in. Troy P and Ed will move in within next few years, Butler, IMO, is a HOFer...

Enjoyed this, as always.

This chart shows pointedly that the HoF really has historically not done well by the position. One could make a reasonable Hall case for at least half of the non-inductees listed, and only two (Reed, Polamalu) look like sure things, not being in only because they aren’t eligible yet. I’d be fine with any or all of Robinson, Butler, Woodson, Browner, Harris, Lynch, Atwater, Cherry, and Meador being elected and wouldn’t have much complaint regarding Sharper or Shell either.

In addition, I think Jimmy Patton and Bobby Dillon (not listed) should be enshrined. Dave Grayson played both S and CB and I support his candidacy, plus one could do worse than another player of this type, Cornell Green.

Didn't LeRoy Butler won a ring with the Packers' in their Super Bowl victoruy agains the Patriots after the 1996-97 season?

Thanks for posting. While there might be a backlog on safeties, I think the flipside is that all of the enshrinees are deserving. When Reed and Polamalu get in, it will really be a "best of the best" bunch. You don't have a headscratcher like John Lynch or David Fulcher sneaking in. Johnny Robinson is IMO the only guy where you could pound your fist on the table, but everyone else on the list has some type of hole in their HOF resume. A few comments:

Dick Anderson - I noticed that you didn't have a DPOTY or Lineman OTY-type column with this list. I think Anderson was DPOTY in 1973. Perhaps Easley was the only other safety to win the award in 1984, but I'm not sure if someone like Reed or Polamalu didn't win it in later years. I don't think Anderson will ever make the HOF, but from 68-74 he was pretty incredible.

Nolan Cromwell - another guy who was really good for a few years. I just got done watching the 1980 NFC wildcard game between the Cowboys-Rams. Interesting game...two really good teams for a wildcard matchup with the 11-5 Rams going to the 12-4 Cowboys. The score was 13-13 in the 3rd quarter, Cromwell strips Tony Dorsett of the ball, Reggie Doss recovers, refs incorrectly give the ball back to the Cowboys. Cowboys end up scoring a TD. Next drive, Cromwell strips Tony Hill of the ball and recovers it himself, refs incorrectly give the ball back to the Cowboys. Cowboys end up scoring a TD. Cowboys win 34-13. Cromwell was not happy.

I'm not all that into those all-decade teams, but I did notice that Polamalu was 2nd team behind Dawkins and Reed. That would be a great debate in itself...I would have had Polamalu as the #1 safety.

Teo wrote:Didn't LeRoy Butler won a ring with the Packers' in their Super Bowl victoruy agains the Patriots after the 1996-97 season?

yeah, and Iothers, too...he had 3... again, as I have said, I get in a hurry and miss things sometimes, usually it takes a while for me to catch the errors. I added that category recently and just didn't finish it before I posted it. got distracted with something else I guess

Bryan wrote:
Nolan Cromwell - another guy who was really good for a few years.

At his peak, Cromwell was as good a free safety as there has been, right up there with Ed Reed, Dawkins. Cromwell was not a light out hitter, but he hit. And he tackled well, He had amazing range and leaping ability and smarts. He played corner in nickel and was a smart blitzer, though not asked to do it much.

If you were to list the best free safeties in terms of skill sets at their peak, he would be in top 2-3. For a career, he cannot match up to Wilson or Lott or Reed or Dawkins so he will never be HOF. His knee injury held him back, though he was a high "red" by Pro Scout in 1985 and 1986 and then retired after 1987. So the career does lack too much for HOF. But peak, 1979-84, he was as good as there was.

Bryan wrote:Thanks for posting. While there might be a backlog on safeties, I think the flipside is that all of the enshrinees are deserving. When Reed and Polamalu get in, it will really be a "best of the best" bunch. You don't have a headscratcher like John Lynch or David Fulcher sneaking in. Johnny Robinson is IMO the only guy where you could pound your fist on the table, but everyone else on the list has some type of hole in their HOF resume. A few comments:

Dick Anderson - I noticed that you didn't have a DPOTY or Lineman OTY-type column with this list. I think Anderson was DPOTY in 1973. Perhaps Easley was the only other safety to win the award in 1984, but I'm not sure if someone like Reed or Polamalu didn't win it in later years. I don't think Anderson will ever make the HOF, but from 68-74 he was pretty incredible.

Nolan Cromwell - another guy who was really good for a few years. I just got done watching the 1980 NFC wildcard game between the Cowboys-Rams. Interesting game...two really good teams for a wildcard matchup with the 11-5 Rams going to the 12-4 Cowboys. The score was 13-13 in the 3rd quarter, Cromwell strips Tony Dorsett of the ball, Reggie Doss recovers, refs incorrectly give the ball back to the Cowboys. Cowboys end up scoring a TD. Next drive, Cromwell strips Tony Hill of the ball and recovers it himself, refs incorrectly give the ball back to the Cowboys. Cowboys end up scoring a TD. Cowboys win 34-13. Cromwell was not happy.

I'm not all that into those all-decade teams, but I did notice that Polamalu was 2nd team behind Dawkins and Reed. That would be a great debate in itself...I would have had Polamalu as the #1 safety.

Cromwell was a college QB at Kansas and was one of the few to succeed in this transition to the NFL. The All-Decade teams really hurt a player like Donnie Shell, a player with bad timing to have starred in both the 70s and 80s, but not enough time played in either decade as compared with others. I believe Shell ranks very highly in the turnover area as well. Think part of the reason safeties get overlooked in how we watch football on television over the years. If the sport were broadcast from the end zone angle we'd see more video of safeties in action. I believe Shell made five consecutive Pro Bowls, which isn't easy, and was a member of a SB all time team at one point.

L.C. Greenwood wrote:

Bryan wrote:Thanks for posting. While there might be a backlog on safeties, I think the flipside is that all of the enshrinees are deserving. When Reed and Polamalu get in, it will really be a "best of the best" bunch. You don't have a headscratcher like John Lynch or David Fulcher sneaking in. Johnny Robinson is IMO the only guy where you could pound your fist on the table, but everyone else on the list has some type of hole in their HOF resume. A few comments:

Dick Anderson - I noticed that you didn't have a DPOTY or Lineman OTY-type column with this list. I think Anderson was DPOTY in 1973. Perhaps Easley was the only other safety to win the award in 1984, but I'm not sure if someone like Reed or Polamalu didn't win it in later years. I don't think Anderson will ever make the HOF, but from 68-74 he was pretty incredible.

Nolan Cromwell - another guy who was really good for a few years. I just got done watching the 1980 NFC wildcard game between the Cowboys-Rams. Interesting game...two really good teams for a wildcard matchup with the 11-5 Rams going to the 12-4 Cowboys. The score was 13-13 in the 3rd quarter, Cromwell strips Tony Dorsett of the ball, Reggie Doss recovers, refs incorrectly give the ball back to the Cowboys. Cowboys end up scoring a TD. Next drive, Cromwell strips Tony Hill of the ball and recovers it himself, refs incorrectly give the ball back to the Cowboys. Cowboys end up scoring a TD. Cowboys win 34-13. Cromwell was not happy.

I'm not all that into those all-decade teams, but I did notice that Polamalu was 2nd team behind Dawkins and Reed. That would be a great debate in itself...I would have had Polamalu as the #1 safety.

Cromwell was a college QB at Kansas and was one of the few to succeed in this transition to the NFL. The All-Decade teams really hurt a player like Donnie Shell, a player with bad timing to have starred in both the 70s and 80s, but not enough time played in either decade as compared with others. I believe Shell ranks very highly in the turnover area as well. Think part of the reason safeties get overlooked in how we watch football on television over the years. If the sport were broadcast from the end zone angle we'd see more video of safeties in action. I believe Shell made five consecutive Pro Bowls, which isn't easy, and was a member of a SB all time team at one point.

One problem I always find with Shell is that he backed Glen Edwards (himself a Pro bowler) his first four seasons in the NFL. If he had been a starter since his rookie year I think he would be enshrined already,

Teo wrote:
One problem I always find with Shell is that he backed Glen Edwards (himself a Pro bowler) his first four seasons in the NFL. If he had been a starter since his rookie year I think he would be enshrined already,

I think he backed Wagner at first, who was the SS, then Wagner moved to FS and he was paired with Shell. But you point is, overall, correct in that had he started sooner. But he did play a lot because in 1976 he was a nickel back but would play up in the box and replace a linebacker. So he got snaps in sub defenses but back then nickel/dime maybe have been 20% of the plays whereas now it's 60-70% or more of maybe 55% depending on how the game goes.

JohnTurney wrote:

Teo wrote:
One problem I always find with Shell is that he backed Glen Edwards (himself a Pro bowler) his first four seasons in the NFL. If he had been a starter since his rookie year I think he would be enshrined already,

I think he backed Wagner at first, who was the SS, then Wagner moved to FS and he was paired with Shell. But you point is, overall, correct in that had he started sooner. But he did play a lot because in 1976 he was a nickel back but would play up in the box and replace a linebacker. So he got snaps in sub defenses but back then nickel/dime maybe have been 20% of the plays whereas now it's 60-70% or more of maybe 55% depending on how the game goes.

Shell did not become a full time starter until after his third season, he was a ferocious tackler on special teams, and was a part timer on that strong Steelers defense until 1977. Undrafted free agent out of South Carolina State, 17 rounds and 442 players were selected in that 1974 draft.