Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Pretty simple...who would you rather have owning YOUR favorite team? And why?

Five Lombardis apiece!

Eddie undefeated in SBs, but Kraft with four other opportunities in addition (9 SBs total).

Sigh...

JohnH19 wrote:Sigh...

http://yourteamcheats.com/SF = 37 points for DeBartolo


http://yourteamcheats.com/NE = 26 points for Kraft

http://yourteamcheats.com/DEN = 53 points for Bowlen...and he will likely be next owner in

Bad enough that people refer to individual players winning Super Bowls...now we have OWNERS winning Super Bowls? Ludicrous.

I don't think Robert Krafti factors into the "five" SBs as much as everyone thinks. The Krafts run the business. Doesn't take a football genius to run a business and turn it into a success. There are thousands of entrepreneurs that do that. Kraft made several big decisions that went in his favor: he owned the land next to Schafer Stadium & he hired Bill Belichick. I don't think Kraft has majority control in personnel. That would be Belichick. Let Belichick run the show. Is that difficult to do? Not really, even though it seems the Krafts' egos have somewhat gotten in the way. I tribute the Patriots' "five" SBs to Belichick's coaching and the players working really hard and Belichick bringing in the right guys. So, I would not pick Robert Kraft.

sluggermatt15 wrote:I don't think Robert Krafti factors into the "five" SBs as much as everyone thinks. The Krafts run the business. Doesn't take a football genius to run a business and turn it into a success. There are thousands of entrepreneurs that do that. Kraft made several big decisions that went in his favor: he owned the land next to Schafer Stadium & he hired Bill Belichick. I don't think Kraft has majority control in personnel. That would be Belichick. Let Belichick run the show. Is that difficult to do? Not really, even though it seems the Krafts' egos have somewhat gotten in the way. I tribute the Patriots' "five" SBs to Belichick's coaching and the players working really hard and Belichick bringing in the right guys. So, I would not pick Robert Kraft.

If Kraft had got his way, Bledsoe would have regained his starting job after returning from injury, Brady would probably have ended up elsewhere, Belichick might well have quit, and the Patriots would probably not have won any Super Bowls at all.

JohnTurney wrote:

JohnH19 wrote:Sigh...

http://yourteamcheats.com/SF = 37 points for DeBartolo


http://yourteamcheats.com/NE = 26 points for Kraft

http://yourteamcheats.com/DEN = 53 points for Bowlen...and he will likely be next owner in

For the Broncos, most of those infractions happened when Shanahan was the coach. And, you also had the McDaniels incident in 2010.

Where did those guys come from? San Fran and New England, the most crooked organizations over the last 37 years. I am not defending what they did, but when you learn from cheaters, you usually end up cheating.

And, I think that website was made by an NE fan. Typical.

Here's my favorite part of this site: http://yourteamcheats.com/PIT#Steroidgate-1970

This person said that the Steelers and Chargers were out in front of everyone as far as using roids to get an advantage. Well, buddy, you're half right:

http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=3866837

7DnBrnc53 wrote: And, I think that website was made by an NE fan. Typical.

Here's my favorite part of this site: http://yourteamcheats.com/PIT#Steroidgate-1970

This person said that the Steelers and Chargers were out in front of everyone as far as using roids to get an advantage. Well, buddy, you're half right:

http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=3866837

Chuck Noll was on staff of the 1963 Chargers. Many suggest he saw the benefits and results and brought them to the Steelers. Look, there is no doubt the Steelers of the 1970s juiced. It was not against the rules so to call it cheating is a stretch. As far as how to spread, who knows. But there were players in the 1970s on lots of teams that used them, but when you see the OLmen and DLmen on Steelers it looks obvious. And when Courson said 80% of Steeler linemen used them, that means 4 of the five did. Look at Larry Brown, a skinny TE in early 1970s, Kolb, Webster, Mansfield, Furness, Dunn...they used PEDs but didn't cheat, IMO

JohnTurney wrote:

7DnBrnc53 wrote: And, I think that website was made by an NE fan. Typical.

Here's my favorite part of this site: http://yourteamcheats.com/PIT#Steroidgate-1970

This person said that the Steelers and Chargers were out in front of everyone as far as using roids to get an advantage. Well, buddy, you're half right:

http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=3866837

Chuck Noll was on staff of the 1963 Chargers. Many suggest he saw the benefits and results and brought them to the Steelers. Look, there is no doubt the Steelers of the 1970s juiced. It was not against the rules so to call it cheating is a stretch. As far as how to spread, who knows. But there were players in the 1970s on lots of teams that used them, but when you see the OLmen and DLmen on Steelers it looks obvious. And when Courson said 80% of Steeler linemen used them, that means 4 of the five did. Look at Larry Brown, a skinny TE in early 1970s, Kolb, Webster, Mansfield, Furness, Dunn...they used PEDs but didn't cheat, IMO

I never said that Steeler players never used them. I'm just saying that their use was probably widespread by the time the Steelers of the 70's started winning titles.

And, as for Mansfield, I heard that he wasn't linked to any steroid abuse. He was the starting center of SB IX, not Webster (contrary to what Tarkenton said. Also, Tark said that Courson was in that game, and he wasn't. He was in college at the time).

Here is another good article: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2324 ... onceptions

7DnBrnc53 wrote: I never said that Steeler players never used them. I'm just saying that their use was probably widespread by the time the Steelers of the 70's started winning titles.

Maybe, but when you look back it does seem the Steelers were doing it earlier and it was more common on their team than on others. Again, I don't think it can be called cheating, but when you look at Cowboys linemen, tall, lean, mobile, they didn't fit steroid use. Rayfield Wright, Nye, Neeley, etc, Pugh Lilly, Martin, Too Tall just didn't look like they had the build of juicers whereas many of the Steelers looked like it and Courson also sayd 80%. I am sure there had to be a few Cowboys who did them, just like other teams, but they didn't look like it.

Of course, it was his word. I have also talked to Joe D and others and while there may have been users on all teams, the Steelers had the culture of it, with Noll coming from SD, guys like Bleier etc... that gained tons of muscle and speed after such terrible wounds.

I have talked to lots of guys about this and there is, in my opinion, a consensus that it went on more with Steelers than with Dallas, Minny, Rams, Redskins, Raiders (though they had a few in the 1970s).

But the real widespread use came about in late 1970s and through the 1980s to early 1990s. I really don't know of any reports of widespread use of roids in the late 1960s, it was around, but guys just didn't need to do it, for one they were not making tons of money and even back then the stuff wasn't cheap, and they didn't need it. Offensive linemen were just getting into weights. Reggie McKenzie said the only weights the Bills had when he got there, in 1972, was one Universal machine. So, if anyone on Bills was juicing, if you don't match it with real weight work it does no good.

I take it you are a bit defensive because you may be a Steelers fan. But there is no reason for that, it's not cheating. Anyone was free to do it. But, of course, the stuff I've read and my curiosity about it has led me to believe the Steelers in the early Noll era were the top using team. But sure, there were other players using it. Anytime I read old articles and this guy or that guy is benching 450-500 pounds, I wonder of that dud was juicing. Pat Matson, Jim Clack, Bob Young, Ed White..and others.

As far as the article, just because Tarkenton got names wrong does not mean he got all of it wrong. And if Franco said "maybe a couple" may mean a couple or it could mean a half dozen...so, no team was clean but until I see more about other teams using it to the degree of the Steelers I will continue to think they kind of led the way, they were not the first, the Chargers were, but I think they likely had the most guys in the early to mid 1970s