Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Adam and his early-’00s Super Bowl accolades makes him the more historically looked-at kicker, but Gostkowski...will he end up being a victim of the guy who came after him? And no matter just how great he has been since he took over, he will always be (unfairly, perhaps) overshadowed? Tough enough for a kicker to get into Canton in the first place. Only so many can ever get in. But Gost not only coming along right after Adam, but being on same team may really disadvantage him. Heck, he actually has more Pro Bowl selections (4 to 3).

Thoughts?

Vinatieri made at least 3 big FG's to help Pats wim those Super Bowls. plus his 46 yd FG into the wind and snow to tie the Tuck Rule game is probably the hardest, most clutch kick ever.

Gostkowski has missed a critical XP in each of the last 3 years that either did, or could have cost the Pats big opportunities (Vs. Den AFC Title game, vs. Atl SB 51, vs. Pit 2017 regular season). Only the Pats converting both 2 pt XP's saved his bacon last year.

Yes Gostkowski may have more Pro Bowls, and can kick the hell out of the ball, but Vinatieri has mas made some of the best FG's in NFL history. Gostkowski has no such kicks.

Plus in SB 42, Belichick did not think enough of Gostkowski to try a 48 yd FG in an indoor stadium in the 3rd Q, and instead tried a pass and failed on 4th and 12 yards to go vs. the Giants. Else, the Pats may have gone 19-0.

superbowlfanatic wrote:Vinatieri made at least 3 big FG's to help Pats wim those Super Bowls. plus his 46 yd FG into the wind and snow to tie the Tuck Rule game is probably the hardest, most clutch kick ever.

Gostkowski has missed a critical XP in each of the last 3 years that either did, or could have cost the Pats big opportunities (Vs. Den AFC Title game, vs. Atl SB 51, vs. Pit 2017 regular season). Only the Pats converting both 2 pt XP's saved his bacon last year.

Yes Gostkowski may have more Pro Bowls, and can kick the hell out of the ball, but Vinatieri has mas made some of the best FG's in NFL history. Gostkowski has no such kicks.

Plus in SB 42, Belichick did not think enough of Gostkowski to try a 48 yd FG in an indoor stadium in the 3rd Q, and instead tried a pass and failed on 4th and 12 yards to go vs. the Giants. Else, the Pats may have gone 19-0.

I completely agree with this post. It's Vinatieri because he made the clutch FGs in big moments that led to history.

I don’t think either is HoF worthy, though that’s maybe just me. As for who’s better, I want to see where their two careers end up in adjusted FG% before making a decision.

Plus if Vinatieri had made either of two failed FG attempts in the SB with Carolina, he wouldn’t have had to make a game winning FG in that game.

bachslunch wrote:I don’t think either is HoF worthy, though that’s maybe just me. As for who’s better, I want to see where their two careers end up in adjusted FG% before making a decision.

Plus if Vinatieri had made either of two failed FG attempts in the SB with Carolina, he wouldn’t have had to make a game winning FG in that game.

I think its just you on vinatieri and the hall of fame to be honest i can go either way

rewing84 wrote:

bachslunch wrote:I don’t think either is HoF worthy, though that’s maybe just me. As for who’s better, I want to see where their two careers end up in adjusted FG% before making a decision.

Plus if Vinatieri had made either of two failed FG attempts in the SB with Carolina, he wouldn’t have had to make a game winning FG in that game.

I think its just you on vinatieri and the hall of fame to be honest i can go either way

No, there are at least two of us, because I agree with bachslunch on that.

Gostkowski has been the top or top 3 kicker since he has come into the league. He's 2X All-Pro and consistently performs well, BUT IMO he does not have the big moment kicks to win like Vinatieri. To me that's what separates the two players.

sluggermatt15 wrote:

superbowlfanatic wrote:Vinatieri made at least 3 big FG's to help Pats wim those Super Bowls. plus his 46 yd FG into the wind and snow to tie the Tuck Rule game is probably the hardest, most clutch kick ever.

Gostkowski has missed a critical XP in each of the last 3 years that either did, or could have cost the Pats big opportunities (Vs. Den AFC Title game, vs. Atl SB 51, vs. Pit 2017 regular season). Only the Pats converting both 2 pt XP's saved his bacon last year.

Yes Gostkowski may have more Pro Bowls, and can kick the hell out of the ball, but Vinatieri has mas made some of the best FG's in NFL history. Gostkowski has no such kicks.

Plus in SB 42, Belichick did not think enough of Gostkowski to try a 48 yd FG in an indoor stadium in the 3rd Q, and instead tried a pass and failed on 4th and 12 yards to go vs. the Giants. Else, the Pats may have gone 19-0.

I completely agree with this post. It's Vinatieri because he made the clutch FGs in big moments that led to history.

Remember his unveliable extra point this season against Buffalo in snowy conditions.

superbowlfanatic wrote:Vinatieri made at least 3 big FG's to help Pats wim those Super Bowls. plus his 46 yd FG into the wind and snow to tie the Tuck Rule game is probably the hardest, most clutch kick ever.

I think Vinatieri's FG is of the two most clutch kicks ever; it may be number one or number two. The other is Pat Summerall's 49-yard field goal, in the snow at Yankee Stadium, with two minutes to play to beat the Browns 13-10 in the final week of the 1958 season. Summerall, who was playing with a bruised right thigh and the swelling had moved to his knee, nailed the kick, which tied the NFL's Eastern Division and forced a tiebreaker game the following week, which the Giants won 10-0 and sent them to the Championship Game against the Colts. A 49-yard field goal in 2017 is successful about 70 percent of the time, but in 1958, without the kicking ball, in the snow, it probably had about a 10 to 15 percent chance of making it.

I found a newsreel of the game. It is a youtube link, but it is a newsreel archive on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0uzLA1kdl8

Another clutch kick I would put in the top ten is Bob Thomas' field goal in the final week of the 1977 season in OT to beat the Giants 12-9 to put the Bears in the playoffs for the first time in 14 years. The game was played at the Meadowlands in very cold weather conditions that fluctuated between sleet, light snow and cold rain, and the artificial turf had an inch or two of slush on it. Both teams had trouble moving the ball in the slush, and it had become a game of field position. The game had gone into OT tied at 9-9, and Chicago had to win the game to get into the postseason, as a tie game would put Washington into the playoffs. With just over a minute to play, a short punt by Dave Jennings gave Chicago the ball on the Giants 45-yard line. Two passes to Greg Latta put the ball at the 26, and Chicago called their final time out with 42 seconds left in their season. Bob Avellini connected with Sweetness on a sideline route to the 11-yard line, but did not get out of bounds, and the clock was running. Thomas and the kicking team ran onto the field, and without time to prepare, Thomas hit the 28-yard field goal with four seconds to play and the Bears were headed to the playoffs.

This was one of the great bad weather games of all time.

I am doing the final re-writes on the kicking chapter for my manuscript, and added a list of the 25 highest kicking points (points only from field goals and extra points) per game in a single season. Stephen Gostkowski owns five of the top 25, nobody else appears more than once. Another stat I found is that there have been 15 times a kicker has scored more than 150 points in a season just thru kicking, Again, Gostkowski did it five times and no other kicker appears more than once. After 12 seasons, Gostkowski is 18th on the list for most career kicking points scored, and is just seven seasons from Gary Anderson's high of 2,544 points. However, Adam Vinatieri will likely break the career point mark next season (he has 2,489 points scored) and there is no telling how much longer he will play once he has the record. Gostkowski has averaged about 134 points per season, Vinatieri about 113 points. I'm not arguing that Gostkowski is a better kicker, but both were considerably helped by the systems they played in getting them all those extra point opportunities and good field position for all of the field goal tries.