Pro game passing the college game

[74_75_78_79_]

At what point in time were NFL teams in general better than college teams? Who would you say, to your estimation, was the first pro champ to be able to beat a college champ of the same year? And assuming it didn’t end right then and there (still a transition period to follow), who was the last college champ to be able to beat pro’s best from the same season?

[John Grasso]

If you use the Chicago College All-Star game as an indicator
the first game in 1934 ended in a tie but the Bears won the second in 1935.
The pros dominated after that with the last college win in 1963.
The 12 games after that were all won by the pros.

[BD Sullivan]

If you use the Chicago College All-Star game as an indicator
the first game in 1934 ended in a tie but the Bears won the second in 1935.
The pros dominated after that with the last college win in 1963.
The 12 games after that were all won by the pros.

The All-Stars beat the Browns in 1955, primarily because Cleveland was scrambling after Otto Graham retired. Continued futility during the preseason caused Paul Brown to beg Graham to return--which he did, leading the Browns to the NFL title.

[TanksAndSpartans]

The '25 Maroons beat a ND team with recent grads coached by Knute Rockne and Red Grange who entered the league that same year has been asked this kind of question in interviews. I think he was on the side of saying the level of play in the pro game was better even in the mid-twenties.

[SixtiesFan]

I remember this subject coming up in 1971 when I was listening to Sports talk on KMOX radio St. Louis. The callers were very unhappy with the city's Football Cardinals. Several callers claimed the two best college teams of the day, Nebraska and Oklahoma, would beat the Cardinals.

The hosts for KMOX football night laughed and said the NFL Cardinals (4-9-1 that year) would beat either Nebraska or Oklahoma by 4-5 touchdowns. One of the hosts I think was the Cardinals personnel director. They said the best college team wouldn't stand a chance in a game with the worst pro team. Again, this was 1971.

[Moran]

I don't know that there was a true contest of the best college team and the best pro team but these all star games were considered a test of the quality of play in the pros vs. colleges at the time. Supposedly before the 1930 game between an undefeated plus alumni all-star Notre Dame team and the NY Giants, Rockne told his team: "Fellows, these Giants are heavy but slow. "Go out there, score two or three touchdowns on passes in the first quarter and then defend and don't get hurt." The result was not what he expected

[Rupert Patrick]

I remember this subject coming up in 1971 when I was listening to Sports talk on KMOX radio St. Louis. The callers were very unhappy with the city's Football Cardinals. Several callers claimed the two best college teams of the day, Nebraska and Oklahoma, would beat the Cardinals.

The hosts for KMOX football night laughed and said the NFL Cardinals (4-9-1 that year) would beat either Nebraska or Oklahoma by 4-5 touchdowns. One of the hosts I think was the Cardinals personnel director. They said the best college team wouldn't stand a chance in a game with the worst pro team. Again, this was 1971.

One really has to wonder with the Browns if one of the top college teams, say Alabama or Clemson, could actually beat them.

I did a quick study aggregate winning percentage of teams over three-year periods, and the lowest of all time is the 1943-45 Cardinals, with a 1-29 record (.0333 WPCT). Second is the 1942-44 Cards with 3-28 record (.0968), third is the 2007-09 Rams with 6-42 record (.1250). One could throw out the war teams due to the fact that a lot of the good players were away and proclaiming the worst team as being from that era is an unfair comparison. Since the start of the 2015 season, The Browns are 4-40 (.0909), which means even if they win one of their remaining games, they will be 5-43 (.1042) which puts them ahead of the Rams on the worst list.

[Bryan]

I don't know that there was a true contest of the best college team and the best pro team but these all star games were considered a test of the quality of play in the pros vs. colleges at the time. Supposedly before the 1930 game between an undefeated plus alumni all-star Notre Dame team and the NY Giants, Rockne told his team: "Fellows, these Giants are heavy but slow. "Go out there, score two or three touchdowns on passes in the first quarter and then defend and don't get hurt." The result was not what he expected

I was thinking of the same game. I've heard it said that this was the most important exhibition game in NFL history, as the prevailing sentiment at the time was that the college game and the college players were superior to the professionals. The fact that New York didn't just win the game but completely dominated the Notre Dame all-stars was a shock to most people. Kind of weird in retrospect that so many thought Notre Dame would win...the Giants had Friedman, who was one of the best players in college football when he played...the Giants were one of the best NFL teams...the Giants had recently played together as a team while Notre Dame's squad was a collection of individuals, some of whom hadn't played football in awhile.

I was looking to see who Notre Dame actually had on their team...this website had good info, including a 'team photo'...it appears they had some of their best recent players, as well as all four Horseman from 1924:

http://125.nd.edu/moments/this-day-in-h ... inal-game/

An interesting footnote is that this exhibition was the last football game Knute Rockne coached.

[rhickok1109]

The Giants' victory was even more overwhelming than the score indicates. The Notre Dame All-Stars didn't get a single first down in that game.

[Moran]

If anyone is interested I have a blog post about a signed football from this game

http://hapmoran.org/wordpress/?p=203