Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Does anyone have a list of the current PFRA HOVG enshrinees?

Ken Crippen wrote:http://profootballresearchers.com/hall-of-very-good.htm

Thanks Ken. I tried to create a 'positional breakdown' of the current members to see which groups were under-represented. It was more of an inexact science than I thought it would be...I tried to use general position terms and some of the pre-1960 players were lumped in with WRs & RBs. I tried to separate the OLBs from the ILB/MLBs and the FSs from the SSs, and also have the multi-position players counted for their 'main' position of note. Let me know if you see any inaccuracies. Here is the breakdown:

127 total HOVG Members

QBs - 12 (includes old guys like Friedman, Isbell, and Spec Sanders)
RBs - 15 (HBs and FBs lumped together)
WRs - 20 (includes Cappeletti, 1950's ends, and Lavvie Dilweg)
TEs - 2 (Jerry Smith and Pete Retzlaff)
Cs - 2
Gs - 16 (includes Ox Emerson & Riley Matheson)
OTs - 7
DEs - 9
DTs - 7 (includes Bob Gain and Joe Klecko)
OLBs - 10 (includes Mike Curtis)
ILB/MLBs - 3
CBs - 6
SS - 2
FS - 8
Head Coach - 7

Thanks Bryan. Emerson was a guard - not sure why HOVG has him at Center as well - every Spartans/Lions box score I've seen has him at guard. Maybe Center is underrepresented - 2 seems really low given that it includes the two-way era. SS also has 2, but that wasn't a position in the two-way era - those guys would be counted as backs.

Should/does the population of the HoVG mirror/compensate for the under-representation in the HoF?

Perhaps "we" have 10 OLBs and only 3 MLBs because the Hall of Fame has the Middle Linebacker position over-represented?

TanksAndSpartans wrote:Thanks Bryan. Emerson was a guard - not sure why HOVG has him at Center as well - every Spartans/Lions box score I've seen has him at guard. Maybe Center is underrepresented - 2 seems really low given that it includes the two-way era. SS also has 2, but that wasn't a position in the two-way era - those guys would be counted as backs.

Thanks...I've edited my list to show Emerson as a G. The HOVG listed him as C-G-LB, so it was probably just me choosing the incorrect 'main' position for Emerson.

I do agree that C seems underrepresented in the HOVG, as it seems to be underrepresented in the actual HOF as well. SS is a bit trickier...more of a specialized position that doesn't usually rack up sacks/INTs and also seems to have a short shelf-life.

JuggernautJ wrote:Should/does the population of the HoVG mirror/compensate for the under-representation in the HoF?

Perhaps "we" have 10 OLBs and only 3 MLBs because the Hall of Fame has the Middle Linebacker position over-represented?

I agree with this. So many MLBs and so relatively few OLBs are in the HOF, that I think the HOVG does a good job of representing the 'underserved', so to speak. I think the same line of thinking holds true to some degree for the larger amount of OGs in the HOVG when compared to OTs.

That said, I think TE is underrepresented in the HOVG. Perhaps its because TE receiving stats usually pale in comparison to WR stats, or the fact that some TEs are only great for a couple years then fall off the map, or that the attribute of 'blocking' is somewhat subjective. Either way, I think its interesting that Jerry Smith is really the only modern era TE in the HOVG. Would a guy like Riley Odoms, who put up a 40-600-5 statline for 10 years, be a worthy HOVG candidate?

C also appears to be underrepresented in the HOVG. Do guys like Rich Saul, Jeff Van Note & Doug Smith deserve a look?

That said, I think TE is underrepresented in the HOVG. Perhaps its because TE receiving stats usually pale in comparison to WR stats, or the fact that some TEs are only great for a couple years then fall off the map, or that the attribute of 'blocking' is somewhat subjective. Either way, I think its interesting that Jerry Smith is really the only modern era TE in the HOVG. Would a guy like Riley Odoms, who put up a 40-600-5 statline for 10 years, be a worthy HOVG candidate?

Todd Christensen was on the ballot this year... and got my vote.

I like Ralph Waldsmith at Center - one of the stars of the pre-NFL era and I think better than Peck and Des Jardien.

I noticed that Lou Saban is listed in the HOVG as just a coach. I believe that he should be in as a linebacker as well as a coach. In fact, I nominated Saban so he would be recognized as the great player that he was as well as a head coach.

Lou Saban played 4 years in the AAFC (1946-49) and was the best linebacker in that league. Proof of that is the fact that Lou was named all-league center as a special consideration twice (1948,1949) even though only offensive positions were used for all-pro teams at that time. Saban was the only linebacker in the AAFC to be honored like that. I believe that he was also named to an all-pro team or teams that included both the NFL and AAFC players.

I noticed that former Giants head coach Jim Lee Howell has been named to the HOVG as an end as well as a head coach. I believe that there would be some justice to have Lou Saban honored the same way as a linebacker as well as a head coach.