Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Cleveland, of course, was the second-place team to Philly. They did split with the Champs-to-be (beating them convincingly in opener) and finished 8-3-1 to GB's 8-4-0. Browns & Packers didn't play each other during that '60 regular-season. Vince's young squad wasn't quite yet ready (though very close) to be the Champs; but were they "number 2", at least?

74_75_78_79_ wrote:Cleveland, of course, was the second-place team to Philly. They did split with the Champs-to-be (beating them convincingly in opener) and finished 8-3-1 to GB's 8-4-0. Browns & Packers didn't play each other during that '60 regular-season. Vince's young squad wasn't quite yet ready (though very close) to be the Champs; but were they "number 2", at least?

Not sure that the Eagles were really better than the Browns in 1960. In their second game, with Cleveland leading near the end, Van Brocklin threw the ball up and it was intercepted by Cleveland. Interference was called and Philadelphia then kicked a field goal to win by 2 points. Had the Browns won that game, they would have finished the season with a 9-2-1 record compared with 9 and 3 for Philadelphia.

That was how it seemed to be for the Cleveland Browns during the late 50's and 1960. They would seem to get the big break or call against them to keep them from a championship game appearance. Maybe the refs didn't like Paul Brown. In 1961, Art showed up in Cleveland.

As far as Green Bay vs. Cleveland, I am not sure, but the Browns would have had the home field advantage.

Saban wrote:

74_75_78_79_ wrote:Cleveland, of course, was the second-place team to Philly. They did split with the Champs-to-be (beating them convincingly in opener) and finished 8-3-1 to GB's 8-4-0. Browns & Packers didn't play each other during that '60 regular-season. Vince's young squad wasn't quite yet ready (though very close) to be the Champs; but were they "number 2", at least?

Not sure that the Eagles were really better than the Browns in 1960. In their second game, with Cleveland leading near the end, Van Brocklin threw the ball up and it was intercepted by Cleveland. Interference was called and Philadelphia then kicked a field goal to win by 2 points. Had the Browns won that game, they would have finished the season with a 9-2-1 record compared with 9 and 3 for Philadelphia.

That was how it seemed to be for the Cleveland Browns during the late 50's and 1960. They would seem to get the big break or call against them to keep them from a championship game appearance. Maybe the refs didn't like Paul Brown. In 1961, Art showed up in Cleveland.

As far as Green Bay vs. Cleveland, I am not sure, but the Browns would have had the home field advantage.

Yes, the Eastern Division winner would be the home team in the 1960 Championship game. In those days it was rotated year by year. The regular season won-lost record was irrelevant.

Before 1967 in the NFL, you didn't "make the post-season," you "won the division."

The '60 Browns lost to teams with records of 10-2 (Eagles), 6-4-2 (Giants), and 5-6-1 (Steelers) and tied with the 6-5-1 Cardinals.

The '60 Packers lost to teams with records of 5-6-1 (Bears), 6-6 (Colts), 4-7-1 (Rams), and 7-5 (Lions).

I don't know that any of that tells us anything.

In those four games the Browns failed to win, I understand that they allowed, on average, 172 yards on the ground and failed to record a sack. The linebacker corps was aging and the linemen were mostly young. I don't think they would have been up for the challenge of beating the Packers. It seems to me that the Packers probably would have pulverized the Browns front seven.

How many second place teams failed to record a sack in the games they tied or lost?

JWL wrote:The '60 Browns lost to teams with records of 10-2 (Eagles), 6-4-2 (Giants), and 5-6-1 (Steelers) and tied with the 6-5-1 Cardinals.

The '60 Packers lost to teams with records of 5-6-1 (Bears), 6-6 (Colts), 4-7-1 (Rams), and 7-5 (Lions).

I don't know that any of that tells us anything.

In those four games the Browns failed to win, I understand that they allowed, on average, 172 yards on the ground and failed to record a sack. The linebacker corps was aging and the linemen were mostly young. I don't think they would have been up for the challenge of beating the Packers. It seems to me that the Packers probably would have pulverized the Browns front seven.

Of course, yards don't always tell the story. In the championship game, the Packers rushed for 223 yards to 99 for the Eagles and outgained them 401-303 overall. The Packers lost the ball on downs at the Eagles' 6 and twice were forced to kick field goals after getting into the red zone.