Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

31-1 vote today:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/raide ... r-of-move/

Ronfitch wrote:31-1 vote today:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/raide ... r-of-move/

Ah! Vegas! The kiss of death for all football leagues: Cowboys, Posse, Sting, Outlaws, Gladiators and Locomotives.

Portland and Birmingham, there may be hope for you yet.

Mark L. Ford wrote:Portland and Birmingham, there may be hope for you yet.

If they have the money, any Podunk city could steal a franchise and the NFL owners would applaud heartily.

Vegas will ice a hockey team before the Raiders even take the field, but football is king. As much as I'd like to see this scheme fail...I don't think it will. The stadium they're about to build is spectacular, and I think Vegas will relish the addition of another attraction. Plus at any given time you'll always have hordes of visiting fans to fill that place if the Raiders are awful.

Prefer they would stay in Oakland, but this isn't the world we live in anymore.

BD Sullivan wrote:

Mark L. Ford wrote:Portland and Birmingham, there may be hope for you yet.

If they have the money, any Podunk city could steal a franchise and the NFL owners would applaud heartily.

I've said it before. American businessmen and politicians will take any action (or not take action) if it will bring them more money,, or save them money, even a relatively small amount. It down't matter if it hurts somebody, even a lot of somebodies, if it puts more money in their pocket.

The NFL owners figure a team in Las Vegas instead of Oakland brings more revenue. Nothing else matters to them. And the NFL is not exactly low on cash as it is. The Raiders storied history in Oakland, if you want to call it that, means nothing to them.

SixtiesFan wrote:

BD Sullivan wrote:

Mark L. Ford wrote:Portland and Birmingham, there may be hope for you yet.

If they have the money, any Podunk city could steal a franchise and the NFL owners would applaud heartily.

I've said it before. American businessmen and politicians will take any action (or not take action) if it will bring them more money,, or save them money, even a relatively small amount. It down't matter if it hurts somebody, even a lot of somebodies, if it puts more money in their pocket.

The NFL owners figure a team in Las Vegas instead of Oakland brings more revenue. Nothing else matters to them. And the NFL is not exactly low on cash as it is. The Raiders storied history in Oakland, if you want to call it that, means nothing to them.

There are unique issues with the NFL.

NFL ownership is such a cash cow, there are many teams that have been with the same family for multiple generations. It's essentially impossible to lose money running an NFL team even if you do a poor job of it. The only owners who have ever been forced out of the NFL for financial reasons have serious issues in things they own outside the NFL. The NFL ownership never causes those sorts of problems.

So the revenue sharing was initially designed to make sure small market teams could compete. But it's gotten to the point where it's made it so easy for NFL owners to make a profit anyway they've likely become a fat, lazy group. Your local team's run by the idiot son of the original owner? Don't feel like paying money to see a team that loses year after year? Too bad. The owner is never going to lose money and can get a sweet stadium deal in some market that isn't sick of losing yet. The owners are always going to be able to outlast you, the fan.

Jay Z wrote:

SixtiesFan wrote: I've said it before. American businessmen and politicians will take any action (or not take action) if it will bring them more money,, or save them money, even a relatively small amount. It down't matter if it hurts somebody, even a lot of somebodies, if it puts more money in their pocket.

The NFL owners figure a team in Las Vegas instead of Oakland brings more revenue. Nothing else matters to them. And the NFL is not exactly low on cash as it is. The Raiders storied history in Oakland, if you want to call it that, means nothing to them.

There are unique issues with the NFL.

NFL ownership is such a cash cow, there are many teams that have been with the same family for multiple generations. It's essentially impossible to lose money running an NFL team even if you do a poor job of it. The only owners who have ever been forced out of the NFL for financial reasons have serious issues in things they own outside the NFL. The NFL ownership never causes those sorts of problems.

So the revenue sharing was initially designed to make sure small market teams could compete. But it's gotten to the point where it's made it so easy for NFL owners to make a profit anyway they've likely become a fat, lazy group. Your local team's run by the idiot son of the original owner? Don't feel like paying money to see a team that loses year after year? Too bad. The owner is never going to lose money and can get a sweet stadium deal in some market that isn't sick of losing yet. The owners are always going to be able to outlast you, the fan.

It is possible (however unlikely) that ownership will "kill the goose that laid the golden egg" (ie exploit the product until there is nothing left for the fans).
I know I watch maybe one third of the NFL games I used to watch and I've been following the NHL and NBA for the first time in my life.
Eventually, like a bad relationship, you get tired of being exploited and taken for granted and just outright abused.

I'll always (I presume) love the history of our game.
But the current NFL? Meh.
I wouldn't miss it much if it were gone.

Unless someone is a bloody moron, there are things that neither the Raiders' people, the NFL, nor the people of Nevada can or will stop.

1. There will be no fan base. Why?
a. One-third of the work force is always on the job. It's a 24-hour town - hardly like the North Pocono HS production of the Wilder classic.
b. Casinos are not going to paper the house - that is, the stadium. Their money is made in the casino, not in a sports arena or stadium.
c. The only people watching television will be the visiting teams' fans.
d. TV will be sucky because they will have to sharp focus to avoid showing all the empty seats.

2. There will be gambling within the confines of the ballpark. Initially, they will start with slots. Eventually, they will have enough small parlors to satisfy those attending.
The business of Nevada is gambling - not football nor any other temporary pastime. Even the sex-for-sale emporiums have to take a back seat to the gambling and, in fact, have slots and other devices in their waiting rooms or "sales" areas.
And those are just the legitimate whore houses. Imagine what goes on in the speakeasy types. And, don't be a perfect moron, there are plenty of those. They operate with the reward of the buck - something the NFL understands and accepts only too well.

3. Players will be "reached." Good grief! the list is endless - Rose, Hornung, Karras, Layne and who knows how many more. Do you think the flash money, low intelect bozo of today will be any different? They will be worse. They can't keep their pants on or their noses out trouble in places that do not condone and sell sin. Imagine what will happen when they hit the shoppes where anything goes.

These are just a few matters. The list is endless.

You can be sure of one thing. If and when the NFL moves a team into Las Vegas, they will have crossed the Rubicon and it will be the beginning of the end of the NFL as it has been known for five-plus decades.

zachary stephen wrote:Unless someone is a bloody moron, there are things that neither the Raiders' people, the NFL, nor the people of Nevada can or will stop.

1. There will be no fan base. Why?
a. One-third of the work force is always on the job. It's a 24-hour town - hardly like the North Pocono HS production of the Wilder classic.
b. Casinos are not going to paper the house - that is, the stadium. Their money is made in the casino, not in a sports arena or stadium.
c. The only people watching television will be the visiting teams' fans.
d. TV will be sucky because they will have to sharp focus to avoid showing all the empty seats.

2. There will be gambling within the confines of the ballpark. Initially, they will start with slots. Eventually, they will have enough small parlors to satisfy those attending.
The business of Nevada is gambling - not football nor any other temporary pastime. Even the sex-for-sale emporiums have to take a back seat to the gambling and, in fact, have slots and other devices in their waiting rooms or "sales" areas.
And those are just the legitimate whore houses. Imagine what goes on in the speakeasy types. And, don't be a perfect moron, there are plenty of those. They operate with the reward of the buck - something the NFL understands and accepts only too well.

3. Players will be "reached." Good grief! the list is endless - Rose, Hornung, Karras, Layne and who knows how many more. Do you think the flash money, low intelect bozo of today will be any different? They will be worse. They can't keep their pants on or their noses out trouble in places that do not condone and sell sin. Imagine what will happen when they hit the shoppes where anything goes.

These are just a few matters. The list is endless.

You can be sure of one thing. If and when the NFL moves a team into Las Vegas, they will have crossed the Rubicon and it will be the beginning of the end of the NFL as it has been known for five-plus decades.

1. The Raider faithful made the trip from Oakland to LA for Raider games at the Coliseum. I expect them to make the trip to Vegas, especially since the Raiders look like they're going to be set up for a good run over the next few years. I doubt there will be much of a local Vegas fan base other than the gamblers who want to get out of the casino for a couple hours. I think they are going to going to have attendance issues, and the casinos and travel agencies will be buying season tickets and comping them as part of travel packages. I've only been to Vegas once, but I've read somewhere that at any given time, half the people in Vegas are tourists. That percentage might even be higher.

2. I think the NFL will fight to make the stadium grounds, once you walk inside the gates, a gamble-free zone. This will be a little different than hosting a boxing match inside a casino. They want people's hind ends in their seats watching the game, not outside by the concession stands playing the slots while the game is going on. Doesn't look good for TV to show empty seats.

3. An agreement will be reached that the Las Vegas Casinos will be barred from accepting any and all bets involving Raiders games and or players involved in said games, even if the Raiders are in the Super Bowl. There is no other way to ensure the integrity of Raider games.