Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Or shall it also be stated...what's the best Bills squad of the '80s? That best Knox installment, or Levy's first playoff team?

And...what's the amount of players who played for both these teams?

74_75_78_79_ wrote:Or shall it also be stated...what's the best Bills squad of the '80s? That best Knox installment, or Levy's first playoff team?

And...what's the amount of players who played for both these teams?

I would have to lean toward the 1980 one. They were a more veteran crew, and they make the SB if Joe Ferguson is healthy, in my opinion. They probably hold off SD, and I don't see the Raiders winning two straight sub-freezing games. The 1988 Bills needed a dropped TD pass in the end zone (from Moon to Hill) and a special teams meltdown by the Oilers just to make it to the AFC Title Game.

Also, the Knox Bills probably had better chemistry. The Levy-era Bills didn't have great chemistry, especially from 1988 to early in the 90 season. After the 1988 AFC Title Game, Paul Maguire was standing outside the Buffalo locker room, and he said that there was a fight going on. It was probably an indicator for what was to come the next year.

I would also probably choose the 1980 squad. Ferguson's ankle injury was a killer. One of the lingering memories was after a tough overtime win over the Rams, a bunch of Bills players gathered in a circle at midfield, dancing and high-kicking while Talkin' Proud played over the speakers. The crowd absolutely loved it.

The 1988 team had a lot of good fortune, as well as a very clutch kicker in Scott Norwood, and they pulled out a number of close games. Although they had a top 3 defense in 1988, they definitely weren't as talented as the 1990-91 teams. They also dropped 3 of 4 games down the stretch to lose home field advantage. They lost 10-5 to the lowly Bucs, and blew a 14-3 lead in the season finale against Indy. If they had hosted the Bengals, I think they very well may have won, especially with Boomer Esiason struggling in the postseason. Instead, they had to travel to the Jungle.
The confrontation after the loss to the Bengals was between veteran tackle Joe Devlin and cornerback Erroll Tucker. According to media reports, like Vic Carucci's Buffalo News article, Marv Levy called the team to stand for his post game speech, and Devlin thought some players, including Tucker, weren't doing so quickly enough.
(However, in Fred Smerlas' 1990 autobiography, which Carrucci co-wrote, Devlin thought the team was too downcast after their first winning season in 7 years and said they should be proud of the season they had.)
Either way, Tucker allegedly responded "We don't need that ---." Devlin came charging at him and a number of teammates had to step in front of him.

Off the top of my head, I think the only players on both teams were Devlin, Fred Smerlas and Jim Ritcher. A quick check of PFR shows G Tim Vogler was as well.

Good story about the end of the Ram game. That Bill team was a nice story. It's too bad they didn't win it all in 1980.

When I think of the Levy Bills, though, I don't have a very warm feeling. That wasn't a very likeable team when you look back on them. I did want them to win their SB's, but I was really sick of them by 1992. They went to their last two SB's because the AFC was super inept, and because they were super lucky (especially in 1993).

Also, I wonder what those teams become without that three game home winning streak in 1990. What if Biscuit doesn't block that FG against Denver, and they go on and lose that game? Do they win the next two home games? And, if they don't, and start 2-4, does that group ever make a SB?

That team had a cast of ego's and they weren't all nice guys. In the Super Bowl weeks, there was excessive partying (XXV) Thurman Thomas blowing off a press conference because Ted Marchibroda had called Kelly the Michael Jordan of the offense (XXVI), and Darryl Talley getting punched by Magic Johnson's bodyguard (XXVII.)
But the guys on that team went on to stay out of jail after their careers were over, as opposed to their Super Bowl opponents, Dave Meggett, Mark Ingram, Terry Orr, and Nate Newton.

As far as the Bills last two AFC title games being due to the weak AFC, I will point out that they went 8-0 against the NFC, and half of those match ups were against playoff bound teams. The win against Dallas in 1993 was made easier without Emmitt Smith. But hey, the Bills were without Kelly, Thomas, and Kent Hull in the second half of the Super Bowl eight months earlier.
Buffalo was 14-2 against the NFC in those four years, and the two losses came in meaningless season finales without Kelly or Thomas.

The 1990 team took a little while to find itself, but they were probably the best overall team of the 4. The 1991 team had the best offense, but longterm injuries to Bruce Smith and Jeff Wright left them vulnerable against the run.
The 1992 team was up and down. Kelly could look dominant at times, but he also led the league in interceptions.This was Thomas at his peak.
The 1993 team was not nearly as dominant, although they had a better record. Thurman Thomas fell off a cliff, although he led the AFC in rushing. His YPC dropped from 4.8 to 3.7, and his yards per reception dropped below 10 for the first time in 5 years. He never again would reach the 4.0 or 10.0 mark until he became a backup.
The defense finished 27th out of 28 teams in yards, but they led the league in turnovers forced, and that was the key to them staying atop the AFC. Turnovers keyed their wins in close games against Dallas, NYG, and Phil, and in not so close games like Washington, Miami, and Hou.

It is a good point about those miracle finishes, especially against Denver and LA. Could the run have gotten started? I think the team may have made at least one appearance, but who knows.

conace21 wrote:The 1990 team took a little while to find itself, but they were probably the best overall team of the 4. The 1991 team had the best offense, but longterm injuries to Bruce Smith and Jeff Wright left them vulnerable against the run.
The 1992 team was up and down. Kelly could look dominant at times, but he also led the league in interceptions.This was Thomas at his peak.
The 1993 team was not nearly as dominant, although they had a better record. Thurman Thomas fell off a cliff, although he led the AFC in rushing. His YPC dropped from 4.8 to 3.7, and his yards per reception dropped below 10 for the first time in 5 years. He never again would reach the 4.0 or 10.0 mark until he became a backup.
The defense finished 27th out of 28 teams in yards, but they led the league in turnovers forced, and that was the key to them staying atop the AFC. Turnovers keyed their wins in close games against Dallas, NYG, and Phil, and in not so close games like Washington, Miami, and Hou.

It is a good point about those miracle finishes, especially against Denver and LA. Could the run have gotten started? I think the team may have made at least one appearance, but who knows.

The 1986 Browns also were less than impressive going into Week 15. They had lost to the 0-6 Packers, needed to go to OT in consecutive weeks to beat the Steelers and Oilers at home before then plodding through an unimpressive win against a Buffalo team in the very early days of the Levy era. Only after they blew out Cincy in Week 15 did they suddenly find themselves, eventually making the AFC Championship three out of the next four seasons.

I would go with '80 as well, especially considering how unimpressive '88 Bills were down the stretch. The '80 team, in all fairness, really should have been top-seed. They beat Chargers at the Murph. In my 1980 regular season Power Rankings, I placed them at #3 behind Atlanta & Dallas. They were quite SB-win-capable. Even if they stop Raiders in a hypo-AFCC at frigid Rich, and a healthy Fergie plays in SBXV, I think Eagles give them a better game than they did to Raiders.