Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

2016 PFWA ALL-NFL TEAM

Offense
QB – Matt Ryan, Atlanta Falcons
RB – Ezekiel Elliott, Dallas Cowboys; David Johnson, Arizona Cardinals
WR – Antonio Brown, Pittsburgh Steelers#; Julio Jones, Atlanta Falcons*
TE – Travis Kelce, Kansas City Chiefs
C – Travis Frederick, Dallas Cowboys
G – Zack Martin, Dallas Cowboys*; Kelechi Osemele, Oakland Raiders
T – Tyron Smith, Dallas Cowboys#; Joe Thomas, Cleveland Browns&

Defense
DE – Jadeveon Clowney, Houston Texans; Khalil Mack, Oakland Raiders*
DT – Aaron Donald, Los Angeles Rams*; Damon Harrison, New York Giants
OLB – Vic Beasley, Atlanta Falcons; Von Miller, Denver Broncos#
MLB – Bobby Wagner, Seattle Seahawks
CB – Marcus Peters, Kansas City Chiefs; Aqib Talib, Denver Broncos
S – Eric Berry, Kansas City Chiefs*; Landon Collins, New York Giants

Special Teams
PK – Justin Tucker, Baltimore Ravens
P – Johnny Hekker, Los Angeles Rams*
KR – Cordarrelle Patterson, Minnesota Vikings*
PR – Tyreek Hill, Kansas City Chiefs
ST – Matthew Slater, New England Patriots

* – repeat selection from 2015
# – consecutive selections from 2014-16
& – consecutive selections from 2013-16

2016 PFWA ALL-AFC TEAM

Offense
QB – Tom Brady, New England Patriots#
RB – Le’Veon Bell, Pittsburgh Steelers, DeMarco Murray, Tennessee Titans
WR – Antonio Brown, Pittsburgh Steelers&; T.Y. Hilton, Indianapolis Colts
TE – Travis Kelce, Kansas City Chiefs
C – Rodney Hudson, Oakland Raiders*
G – Kelechi Osemele, Oakland Raiders; Marshal Yanda, Baltimore Ravens#
T – Donald Penn, Oakland Raiders; Joe Thomas, Cleveland Browns&

Defense
DE – Jadeveon Clowney, Houston Texans; Khalil Mack, Oakland Raiders*
DT – Geno Atkins, Cincinnati Bengals*; Ndamukong Suh, Miami Dolphins*
OLB – Lorenzo Alexander, Buffalo Bills; Von Miller, Denver Broncos&
MLB – Dont’a Hightower, New England Patriots
CB – Marcus Peters, Kansas City Chiefs*; Aqib Talib, Denver Broncos
S – Eric Berry, Kansas City Chiefs*; Devin McCourty, New England Patriots

Special Teams
PK – Justin Tucker, Baltimore Ravens
P – Pat McAfee, Indianapolis Colts
KR – Tyreek Hill, Kansas City Chiefs
PR – Tyreek Hill, Kansas City Chiefs
ST – Matthew Slater, New England Patriots@

* – repeat selection from 2014
# – consecutive selections from 2014-16
& – consecutive selections from 2013-16
@ – consecutive selections from 2011-16

2016 PFWA ALL-NFC TEAM

Offense
QB – Matt Ryan, Atlanta Falcons
RB – Ezekiel Elliott, Dallas Cowboys; David Johnson, Arizona Cardinals
WR – Odell Beckham Jr.*, New York Giants; Julio Jones, Atlanta Falcons*
TE – Greg Olsen, Carolina Panthers#
C – Travis Frederick, Dallas Cowboys
G – T.J. Lang, Green Bay Packers; Zack Martin, Dallas Cowboys#
T – Tyron Smith, Dallas Cowboys#; Trent Williams, Washington Redskins*

Defense
DE – Cliff Avril, Seattle Seahawks; Brandon Graham, Philadelphia Eagles
DT – Aaron Donald, Los Angeles Rams*; Damon Harrison, New York Giants
OLB – Vic Beasley, Atlanta Falcons; Ryan Kerrigan, Washington Redskins
MLB – Bobby Wagner, Seattle Seahawks
CB – Janoris Jenkins, New York Giants; Patrick Peterson, Arizona Cardinals*
S – Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Green Bay Packers; Landon Collins, New York Giants

Special Teams
PK – Matt Bryant, Atlanta Falcons
P – Johnny Hekker, Los Angeles Rams&
KR – Cordarrelle Patterson, Minnesota Vikings*
PR – Marcus Sherels, Minnesota Vikings
ST – Dwayne Harris, New York Giants

* – repeat selection from 2015
# – consecutive selections from 2014-16
& – consecutive selections from 2013-16

So they went with a 4-3 defense. And dispensed with all that crazy stuff the Associated Press did. But it's still odd to see 4-3 outside linebackers as Vic Beasley and Von Miller. But I do prefer the Clowney pick at defensive end / Beasley as I thought Clowney was much more multi-dimensional.

NWebster wrote:So they went with a 4-3 defense. And dispensed with all that crazy stuff the Associated Press did. But it's still odd to see 4-3 outside linebackers as Vic Beasley and Von Miller. But I do prefer the Clowney pick at defensive end / Beasley as I thought Clowney was much more multi-dimensional.

This is a better team than the Associated Press one. I have all my players selected but some 1st team spots are still up for grabs, as like Reaser, I will use playoff games to decide some "ties". I also am not sure what to do with Von Miller. Beasley is not a consideration. My other question is do I go 4-3 (and have Damon Harrison) or 4-2 (and have Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie)?

JWL wrote:

NWebster wrote:So they went with a 4-3 defense. And dispensed with all that crazy stuff the Associated Press did. But it's still odd to see 4-3 outside linebackers as Vic Beasley and Von Miller. But I do prefer the Clowney pick at defensive end / Beasley as I thought Clowney was much more multi-dimensional.

This is a better team than the Associated Press one. I have all my players selected but some 1st team spots are still up for grabs, as like Reaser, I will use playoff games to decide some "ties". I also am not sure what to do with Von Miller. Beasley is not a consideration. My other question is do I go 4-3 (and have Damon Harrison) or 4-2 (and have Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie)?

I'd probably go Chris Harris over DRC, though the latter is worthy. I think the AP positioning this could have been resolved by Simply Having the extra defensive back position be "slot Corner" and having the extra line position be designated pass rusher. These are real things.

NWebster wrote:

JWL wrote:

NWebster wrote:So they went with a 4-3 defense. And dispensed with all that crazy stuff the Associated Press did. But it's still odd to see 4-3 outside linebackers as Vic Beasley and Von Miller. But I do prefer the Clowney pick at defensive end / Beasley as I thought Clowney was much more multi-dimensional.

This is a better team than the Associated Press one. I have all my players selected but some 1st team spots are still up for grabs, as like Reaser, I will use playoff games to decide some "ties". I also am not sure what to do with Von Miller. Beasley is not a consideration. My other question is do I go 4-3 (and have Damon Harrison) or 4-2 (and have Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie)?

I'd probably go Chris Harris over DRC, though the latter is worthy. I think the AP positioning this could have been resolved by Simply Having the extra defensive back position be "slot Corner" and having the extra line position be designated pass rusher. These are real things.

I have Harris as a starter. Rodgers-Cromartie is my #3 cornerback so if I opt to go with a nickel look as my starting team, then Rodgers-Cromartie would get the spot.

NWebster wrote: I think the AP positioning this could have been resolved by Simply Having the extra defensive back position be "slot Corner"

That's what I suggested in the AP thread.

4-3 OLB my thoughts on the AP way are in that thread but here with the PFWA for OLB is just 'normal', as it has been. Select pass/edge rushers.

Though I'll add on the AP that it's 'funny' that 4-3 DE's that are good against the run will never be considered since it's "edge rusher" and "interior". Edge rusher will always goto an edge rusher (obviously). Then true 4-3 OLB's who were already rarely considered in the past are even less likely to be selected in the AP since they changed to just 3 LB's. And in years where they don't inexplicably put an "edge rusher" - Von - at LB they'll very likely just select 3 MLB/ILB's every year. (e.g. next season the 3 AP 1st-team LB's could be Wagner, Kuechly and Lee and the 2nd-team LB's could be Mosley, Ogletree and Kwon Alexander) ...

... meanwhile, there really isn't a way for the Telvin Smith's of the world to get on these teams. Or a Lavonte David who had a down year, for him, but in the past was able to break through once for all-pro - though he should be a multi-time All-Pro - he has essentially lost all future opportunities to be an AP all-pro.

Reaser wrote:

NWebster wrote: I think the AP positioning this could have been resolved by Simply Having the extra defensive back position be "slot Corner"

That's what I suggested in the AP thread.

4-3 OLB my thoughts on the AP way are in that thread but here with the PFWA for OLB is just 'normal', as it has been. Select pass/edge rushers.

Though I'll add on the AP that it's 'funny' that 4-3 DE's that are good against the run will never be considered since it's "edge rusher" and "interior". Edge rusher will always goto an edge rusher (obviously). Then true 4-3 OLB's who were already rarely considered in the past are even less likely to be selected in the AP since they changed to just 3 LB's. And in years where they don't inexplicably put an "edge rusher" - Von - at LB they'll very likely just select 3 MLB/ILB's every year. (e.g. next season the 3 AP 1st-team LB's could be Wagner, Kuechly and Lee and the 2nd-team LB's could be Mosley, Ogletree and Kwon Alexander) ...

... meanwhile, there really isn't a way for the Telvin Smith's of the world to get on these teams. Or a Lavonte David who had a down year, for him, but in the past was able to break through once for all-pro - though he should be a multi-time All-Pro - he has essentially lost all future opportunities to be an AP all-pro.

Couldn't possibly agree more the victims are good traditional 43 OLB'so. One wonders if Derrick Brooks, literally there with Jack Ham in my eyes, would make All Pro's under this set up. Amplifying your edge rusher point, it's telling that Clowney - excellent run defender - made this team and not the AP team. David is, to me, the single most underrated player of this decade in that he's been consistently all pro quality (even as a rookie) yet gets almost no respect.

I struggle with CB as well, and this has always been a failing, but Interceptions are really overrated here. These guys are on the field for 500 passing plays a year and to get recognition for doing something 8 times over someone else who does it 4 or 5 times seems silly. This aides Peter's, etc, but hurts the Chris Harris' of the world. And while he's not been who he was from 12-14, I'd still take Richard Sherman over similarly sized Peter's any day.

NWebster wrote:[

Couldn't possibly agree more the victims are good traditional 43 OLB'so. One wonders if Derrick Brooks, literally there with Jack Ham in my eyes, would make All Pro's under this set up. Amplifying your edge rusher point, it's telling that Clowney - excellent run defender - made this team and not the AP team. David is, to me, the single most underrated player of this decade in that he's been consistently all pro quality (even as a rookie) yet gets almost no respect.

I struggle with CB as well, and this has always been a failing, but Interceptions are really overrated here. These guys are on the field for 500 passing plays a year and to get recognition for doing something 8 times over someone else who does it 4 or 5 times seems silly. This aides Peter's, etc, but hurts the Chris Harris' of the world. And while he's not been who he was from 12-14, I'd still take Richard Sherman over similarly sized Peter's any day.

Really, not 11 starters... 21, 12 personnel, 11 personnel could all be represented maybe 14 players. On defense, base, then nickle, need 13 or so.

JohnTurney wrote:Really, not 11 starters... 21, 12 personnel, 11 personnel could all be represented maybe 14 players. On defense, base, then nickle, need 13 or so.

I don't like that idea, at all. There is 11 starters, I don't see any teams lining up with 14 players on offense to start the game.

It also seems like a pretty slippery slope and too much "everyone gets a trophy", in my opinion. Next you're adding 3rd down backs and an extra tackle and a 4th WR since teams go 4-wide and so on.

League-wide teams are in 11 personnel roughly 60% of the time. With no other (12, 21, etc) personnel grouping reaching even 20% - which is not even a third of 11 personnel.

So it doesn't have to be difficult.
Option 1: Select 11 All-Pros based on the personnel grouping most widely used league-wide (11 personnel).
Option 2: Since FB's do exist, use the 10 positions that are practically 'always' on the field (QB, RB, WR, WR, TE, LT, LG, C, RG, RT) and have the last spot be a vote between slot/FB - and if you want can even include TE in that, though no TE's are getting screwed out of All-Pro selections so I don't see the need. Especially since 2 TE packages aren't used anywhere near enough to warrant a second TE.

The way I look at it, offense is pretty simple. The two most common personnel groupings account for over 75% of offensive snaps league-wide and the difference between those two is 3rd WR or a TE and again, All-Pro teams don't need a second TE (currently, obviously. 10 years from now everyone could be in 12 personnel "all the time" then you would change to reflect that.)

Defense I would say is more difficult. With 3-4 v. 4-3 and that Nickel is basically the base defense now. Though with different responsibilities anyway (in the "have an all-pro spot for everything" way you would have to have CB's who play man, CB's who primarily are in zone, always in the box safeties, the interchangeable safeties, traditional FS's, traditional SS's, CB's who only play on one side of the field, CB's who 'travel' and so on) ... you have to compare players doing different things at their position, regardless. So it's not really different if you're picking between an ILB and a MLB. Pick the better player. Again, shouldn't be that difficult.

My thoughts, at least. Though I've always been a stickler for 11 on offense and 11 on defense.

NWebster wrote:I struggle with CB as well, and this has always been a failing, but Interceptions are really overrated here. These guys are on the field for 500 passing plays a year and to get recognition for doing something 8 times over someone else who does it 4 or 5 times seems silly. This aides Peter's, etc, but hurts the Chris Harris' of the world. And while he's not been who he was from 12-14, I'd still take Richard Sherman over similarly sized Peter's any day.

The Broncos tandem the Giants tandem and even the Patriots tandem - who are kind of underrated in the typical "NE doesn't have ANY good players besides Brady" way. Then throw in Rhodes and coincidentally, *Hayward, and you have CB's that performed better than Peters - who I like as a UW fan even though he had some issues 'here' and a lot of UW fans don't like him.

* - Hayward was excellent in coverage this season, not just the interceptions. He also was asked to do a lot with Flowers repeatedly being injured and in and out of the lineup. Then flipping sides. I saw him lined up all over the place this season and rarely saw him be beat. His weakness is that he is very soft in run support. Sometimes not even a willing participant. Though in coverage he should have been strongly considered for a CB spot and I'd have him over Peters. This season.