Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Alan Page & Randy White would have to be looked upon as the key miss-outs for the 75th. Each got 9-consecutive Pro Bowls - six of those 1st-team All-Pros for Page, all nine 1st-team All-Pros for White. Any chance both get in for 100th?

As for the three DTs selected in '94: Lily, Merlin, Mean Joe.

I think Page for sure. I'm surprised he didn't make the 75th Anniversary Team. I think of Page like Bruce Smith. Not on the same level as the top 3, but a level above anyone else. Maybe I'm too hard on Page for the Vikings' Super Bowl failures, especially against the run. But I don't think anyone was better than Page during his MVP season.
If there is room for a fifth DT, Randy White is a clear choice. I can't think of any player of the last 20 years who is worthy of overtaking him. Warren Sapp was too inconsistent, and John Randle (in Dr. Z.'s estimation) was a liability against the run. Cortez Kennedy...not quite there.

conace21 wrote:I think Page for sure. I'm surprised he didn't make the 75th Anniversary Team. I think of Page like Bruce Smith. Not on the same level as the top 3, but a level above anyone else. Maybe I'm too hard on Page for the Vikings' Super Bowl failures, especially against the run. But I don't think anyone was better than Page during his MVP season.
If there is room for a fifth DT, Randy White is a clear choice. I can't think of any player of the last 20 years who is worthy of overtaking him. Warren Sapp was too inconsistent, and John Randle (in Dr. Z.'s estimation) was a liability against the run. Cortez Kennedy...not quite there.

If White does get boxed-out, it would be fair that its because Alan Page was actually considered better by the voters and not at all because there already is a Cowboy (Lily) in. I really do hope both get in for 100.

Yes, I agree that no DL in the past 20 years holds up to Page & White; and I thought of each of those you mentioned including and especially Cortez (making all those Pro Bowls with a struggling team). Jerome Brown...if only his career wasn't cut short.

I know Page's MVP resonates after all these years... but the authors of the 75th Anniversary team elected to go with Lily, Olsen and Greene.
If you're going to say that no one superior has played in the last 20 years and open a spot for someone from a previous era then Leo Nomellini needs to also be considered:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... meLe00.htm

Perhaps a more interesting question would be what has changed in the game that has limited the DT position?
Is it that because of the increased emphasis on passing (by both the offense and the defense) that the more skilled defensive linemen now play DE? Or because modern schemes use the DTs/NGs differently?

JuggernautJ wrote:I know Page's MVP resonates after all these years... but the authors of the 75th Anniversary team elected to go with Lily, Olsen and Greene.
If you're going to say that no one superior has played in the last 20 years and open a spot for someone from a previous era then Leo Nomellini needs to also be considered:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... meLe00.htm

Perhaps a more interesting question would be what has changed in the game that has limited the DT position?
Is it that because of the increased emphasis on passing (by both the offense and the defense) that the more skilled defensive linemen now play DE? Or because modern schemes use the DTs/NGs differently?

Leo Nomellini...hmm? Not only didn't make the regular 75th, but he's not on its all-time two-way team either (excelled both-ways)! Seemed like a Beast stuck on mediocre teams. Wiki says he was the first player ever drafted (in '50) by SF (didn't the AAFL have a draft?).

Yes, seems as if the faster, more-talented DTs have been made into DEs as all the others get relegated to blocker-eaters. You'll have a Richard Seymour, Jared Allen, Wilfork, Suh every now and then but still.

JuggernautJ wrote:Perhaps a more interesting question would be what has changed in the game that has limited the DT position?
Is it that because of the increased emphasis on passing (by both the offense and the defense) that the more skilled defensive linemen now play DE? Or because modern schemes use the DTs/NGs differently?

With the pre-1978 blocking rules, you couldn't shove and grapple with the defensive players so you needed OGs that were athletic enough to pull and trap. You had NFL guards like Gerry Mullins and John Niland who were like 240 pounds, so lightweight DTs like Alan Page and Tom Keating could exist and not get mauled every week. Also, the blocking rules themselves made pass protection difficult, so DTs in general could get to the QB just as easily as a DE. I think in some cases it was advantageous for an Alan Page to play DT instead of DE because the DT position gave him a shorter path to the pocket and allowed him to get in the QBs face immediately.

I think the post-1978 rules changed the DT position. Offenses started passing more, so you needed big OGs who could pass protect instead of small OGs who could trap block. Also, size and arm length became important traits for an OL, as you could slow down a DL by extending your arms or giving a well-timed push. I think the size of the interior OL has made it nearly impossible for a 2016 DT to put up Alan Page numbers. If a DT gets an OG off-balance, the OG can just push/ride the DT into a wash of other players. Its much easier for a DE/OLB to rush the passer because they have more space to work with. Also, with OGs and OCs being in the 330 lb range, its hard for an undersized DT to survive on a weekly basis.