Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

In another thread, someone mentioned Paul Brown trading Doug Atkins, perhaps rashly. It reminded me that between 1959 and 1963, the Browns traded or cut Willie Davis, Jim Marshall, Bobby Mitchell, Henry Jordan, Len Dawson, Fred Cox and Floyd Peters -- and got virtually nothing in return.

Granted, Cleveland did just fine (remarkably well, in fact) without those players for the rest of the decade, but that’s still a phenomenal amount of talent to essentially give away.

Browns experts, was there any common thread among the decisions to jettison these players? Did they not fit a P.B. template of some kind, or (with the exception of Mitchell) did they just not warrant a shot at a starting job?

Citizen wrote:In another thread, someone mentioned Paul Brown trading Doug Atkins, perhaps rashly. It reminded me that between 1959 and 1963, the Browns traded or cut Willie Davis, Jim Marshall, Bobby Mitchell, Henry Jordan, Len Dawson, Fred Cox and Floyd Peters -- and got virtually nothing in return.

Granted, Cleveland did just fine (remarkably well, in fact) without those players for the rest of the decade, but that’s still a phenomenal amount of talent to essentially give away.

Browns experts, was there any common thread among the decisions to jettison these players? Did they not fit a P.B. template of some kind, or (with the exception of Mitchell) did they just not warrant a shot at a starting job?

Willie Davis: Billy Howton was strongly hinting about retirement and A.D. Williams was seen as a potential replacement. Howton eventually went to Dallas to end his career

Jim Marshall: Had been switched to offensive tackle, but Brown figured Ed Nutting was better. It didn't help that Marshall missed weeks of camp due to contracting encephalitis.

Bobby Mitchell: A painful price that was needed to get Ernie Davis, which obviously ended tragically.

Henry Jordan: Jordan couldn't break into the starting lineup, so Brown presumably considered him expendable.

Len Dawson: Never very consistent up to that point, though Brown had Hank Stram on the line when he released Dawson.

Fred Cox: Lou Groza was still a viable kicker.

Floyd Peters: Done in the aftermath of the Karras suspension, so this was post-Brown. The Browns had acquired Cowboys DT Ken Frost, who supposedly made Peters expendable. In 1961, he had made the All-Rookie team, but injured his knee early in the '62 season. It turned out that Frost's knee was shot, which led the Browns to cut him toward the end of training camp and for Frost to sue the Cowboys for their medical treatment.

From my recollection, in Paul Brown's 1979 autobiography, he inferred that he gave Willie Davis and Henry Jordan to the Packers to help out his friend Vince Lombardi.

SixtiesFan wrote:From my recollection, in Paul Brown's 1979 autobiography, he inferred that he gave Willie Davis and Henry Jordan to the Packers to help out his friend Vince Lombardi.

Paul Brown recommended Lombardi for the Green Bay job. Brown said that he felt responsible for Vince and offered him a list of players he would consider trading that he thought would have a hard time breaking into Cleveland's starting lineup. Cleveland was deep in defensive linemen with guys like Bob Gain, Don Colo, and Floyd Peters and were bigger than Jordan and Davis, and the players were already starting to get bigger in pro football.

Paul Brown probably made up for that in 1962 when he made trades for Frank Ryan, Gary Collins, Bill Glass, and Ernie Green. Vince Lombardi wanted to pay back Brown for helping him and offered him Green in 1962, as the Packers were deep in running backs. Cleveland gave Green Bay a 7th round draft choice for Ernie Green.

Those trades ended up helping Art Modell and Blanton Collier more than Paul Brown because Modell fired Brown after the 1962 season. I doubt that Cleveland wins the 1964 NFL championship without Ryan, Collins, Glass, and Green, even though the Browns only real competition in the east that year was the St. Louis Cardinals, who had a tendency to self destruct.

I forgot to mention: After Paul Brown was fired, he still remained on Cleveland's payroll as a consultant.

Brown sent a letter to Art Modell prior to the 1964 draft and advised Art to draft Paul Warfield of Ohio State. Cleveland did in the first round. Maybe the Browns would have drafted Warfield anyway. Maybe not.

Saban wrote:I forgot to mention: After Paul Brown was fired, he still remained on Cleveland's payroll as a consultant.

Brown sent a letter to Art Modell prior to the 1964 draft and advised Art to draft Paul Warfield of Ohio State. Cleveland did in the first round. Maybe the Browns would have drafted Warfield anyway. Maybe not.

Brown seemed to have a fixation with Ohio State players.

BD Sullivan wrote:

Saban wrote:I forgot to mention: After Paul Brown was fired, he still remained on Cleveland's payroll as a consultant.

Brown sent a letter to Art Modell prior to the 1964 draft and advised Art to draft Paul Warfield of Ohio State. Cleveland did in the first round. Maybe the Browns would have drafted Warfield anyway. Maybe not.

Brown seemed to have a fixation with Ohio State players.

I think that Paul Brown used to watch Ohio State games on Saturdays.

The early Cleveland teams not only had players that he coached at Ohio State, but also players Lin Houston, Horace Gillom, and Tommy James, who played for his high school teams at Massillon, Ohio. Long time Cleveland assistant coaches Fritz Heisler and Howard Brinker also played on Brown's high school teams.

Saban wrote:Cleveland was deep in defensive linemen with guys like Bob Gain, Don Colo, and Floyd Peters and were bigger than Jordan and Davis, and the players were already starting to get bigger in pro football.

I've read that Brown wanted his DLs to be violent, strong guys who would engage the OL and hold the point of attack. Gain and Colo fit that mold, but guys like Jordan, Davis & Jim Marshall were smaller guys who would try to shoot the gaps and get penetration. At some point Brown decided that those three players didn't fit his philosophy and got rid of them.

Paul Brown would try to accommodate players sometimes, like trading them to teams that were located in or near their home towns. For Instance: In 1953, fullback Chick Jagade told Brown that he had to quit football to be in his home town of Chicago to participate more in his family business. Brown said that he would try to get a trade with one of the Chicago teams, and he traded Jarrin Chick to the Bears. In return, the Browns got Fred "Curly" Morrison and a draft choice. Morrison played well for Cleveland. There are other examples of that.

The Jagade for Morrison deal did not turn out completely well for the Browns or Paul Brown. In 1960, Morrison, then retired, told a friend of his that the Browns were up for sale. The friend told Art Modell.