Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

I've heard it's common for baseball players to argue with umpires but don't think I've personally seen it in the NFL.

There's a picture I've seen online where Dick Butkus is yelling at one.

Even have seen at least one film of Coach Halas running onto the field to fight with th officials.

What I have seen a lot of are head coaches standing near an official by the sidelines and consistently jawing at them about stuff, probably about things the other team is allegedly doing.

Is physical contact with officials acceptable in the NFL? I've seen officials help players
up after a play yet I believe there was a case a few years ago where a coach was upset
with a call after the game was over and while following the official off the field tapped
him on the shoulder to get his attention and was subsequently fined for it.

In the NBA a couple of years ago, Turkish-born Hedo Turkaglu was arguing a call with
an official and in a friendly European way put his hand on the officials' shoulder and
was ejected, fined and suspended.

I believe there was also a case of a major league pitcher who tapped an umpire on the
shoulder simply to get his attention and was ejected from the game for it.

Officials should be allowed to use their judgment as to the intent of the contact.

Orlando Brown knocked down a ref for accidently hitting him with a penalty flag in 1999.

BD Sullivan wrote:Orlando Brown knocked down a ref for accidentally hitting him with a penalty flag in 1999.

Let's not forget the reason Brown knocked down that ref.

The ref (Jeff Triplette) threw a flag weighted with ball bearings and hit Orlando in the eye.

Brown's career was effectively ruined by that inadvertent toss: he missed three years with the eye injury, was declared partially blind and never was the same when he returned.

The NFL was sued and settled out of court... and the material used to weigh down flags was changed... but Orlando Brown was never again the same player.
He died in 2011 from complications from Diabetes.

Orlando Brown knocked down a ref for accidently hitting him with a penalty flag in 1999.

My thoughts at that time were... "wow, that's quite an overreaction to a fluky mistake." I don't think that ref was aiming for Brown's face. Definitely an unfortunate incident and long term outcome though.

In the 1962 NFL championship game, Willie Wood was ejected from the game after accidentally knocking down a referee who called a pass interference penalty against Wood. When I saw Wood sitting on the bench afterwards, I could tell that Wood felt terrible about it. Wood was trying to argue what he thought was a bad call and bumped into the ref.

ChrisBabcock wrote:

Orlando Brown knocked down a ref for accidently hitting him with a penalty flag in 1999.

My thoughts at that time were... "wow, that's quite an overreaction to a fluky mistake." I don't think that ref was aiming for Brown's face. Definitely an unfortunate incident and long term outcome though.

Brown's temper also got the better of him in a 2003 playoff game when he played for the Ravens. He got flagged for two personal fouls, with the second one helping give the Titans 15 yards to start their game-winning drive. Jevon Kearse said he had deliberately baited Brown:

"You have to know your opponent," Kearse said. "You know players try to intimidate you and try to bully you and everything and, if you know that going into the game, you are going to get some of those plays if you play smart. He's like that -- especially if things aren't going their way. He's trying to bully you. It's not going to work. Jim Schwartz, our defensive coordinator, knows him from Cleveland. He's always trying to grab you and head-butt you and things like that."

In the famous 49ers comeback against the Rams (12/11/89):

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/b ... 110ram.htm

Charles Haley was ejected for touching an official while arguing a call.
In reality the ref touched Haley, putting both hands on his chest and Haley swatted them away... earning an ejection.
Needless to say he was a tad annoyed.

MIKEBENNIDICT wrote:I've heard it's common for baseball players to argue with umpires but don't think I've personally seen it in the NFL.

There's a picture I've seen online where Dick Butkus is yelling at one.

Even have seen at least one film of Coach Halas running onto the field to fight with th officials.

It happens after pretty much every play. Almost every pass more than 10 yards from the line of scrimmage ends with a receiver or defender telling an official to throw a flag. Meanwhile, there is also a good chance an offensive lineman or defensive lineman made some sort of comment to another official.