Blanton Collier vs. George Siefert: who was better coach?

[ChrisBabcock]

The discussion about Siefert in a different thread got me thinking about this question. Both followed up a legend. Both won championships and had multiple playoff teams. Granted Siefert won 2 SBs but then had his not very good tenure in Carolina.

[BD Sullivan]

Collier's worst season with the Browns was his last, 7-7 in 1970. He retired because he was essentially deaf by that time.

[Saban1]

Collier.

[Saban1]

Maybe George Wilson should be included in this discussion. Wilson's Lions won the NFL Championship in 1957 with a team built by previous head coach Buddy Parker. I would pick Collier over Wilson too.

[74_75_78_79_]

Very good comparison thread! Both were vital assistants in a Dynasty, both specializing in pass-D, both with modest unassuming personalities. Seifert's got two Rings to Collier's single NFL Title but of course as popularly perceived, George 'inherited' the first of those. Blanton took over a 7-6-1 team that was only 8-5-1 the year before that. He made them championship-caliber again. After guiding Cleveland to a 10-4 finish and Playoff Bowl-berth his first year, he won-it-all the following season only to return to the Title Game in '65. Led great Browns teams in the late-'60s as well. If not for Lombardi, perhaps he wins another Title or two during his time in Cleveland. If not for Jimmy's Boys, maybe Seifert wins another Ring or two. Collier's team blasts Unitas in a Title Game, Seifert blasts another QB Legend, Elway, in a Super Bowl. Again, great thread topic. Who do I think is better? I'll leave it to you all. I'm torn.

[BD Sullivan]

Very good comparison thread! Both were vital assistants in a Dynasty, both specializing in pass-D, both with modest unassuming personalities. Seifert's got two Rings to Collier's single NFL Title but of course as popularly perceived, George 'inherited' the first of those. Blanton took over a 7-6-1 team that was only 8-5-1 the year before that. He made them championship-caliber again. After guiding Cleveland to a 10-4 finish and Playoff Bowl-berth his first year, he won-it-all the following season only to return to the Title Game in '65. Led great Browns teams in the late-'60s as well. If not for Lombardi, perhaps he wins another Title or two during his time in Cleveland. If not for Jimmy's Boys, maybe Seifert wins another Ring or two. Collier's team blasts Unitas in a Title Game, Seifert blasts another QB Legend, Elway, in a Super Bowl. Again, great thread topic. Who do I think is better? I'll leave it to you all. I'm torn.

In his first year in 1963, Collier made the same decision that Lou Saban did when the latter came back to Buffalo--give the ball to your best back. Jim Brown set the NFL record for rushing in '63. The next year, he made the decision to switch Paul Warfield to WR rather than DB or RB.

[Saban1]

Very good comparison thread! Both were vital assistants in a Dynasty, both specializing in pass-D, both with modest unassuming personalities. Seifert's got two Rings to Collier's single NFL Title but of course as popularly perceived, George 'inherited' the first of those. Blanton took over a 7-6-1 team that was only 8-5-1 the year before that. He made them championship-caliber again. After guiding Cleveland to a 10-4 finish and Playoff Bowl-berth his first year, he won-it-all the following season only to return to the Title Game in '65. Led great Browns teams in the late-'60s as well. If not for Lombardi, perhaps he wins another Title or two during his time in Cleveland. If not for Jimmy's Boys, maybe Seifert wins another Ring or two. Collier's team blasts Unitas in a Title Game, Seifert blasts another QB Legend, Elway, in a Super Bowl. Again, great thread topic. Who do I think is better? I'll leave it to you all. I'm torn.

In his first year in 1963, Collier made the same decision that Lou Saban did when the latter came back to Buffalo--give the ball to your best back. Jim Brown set the NFL record for rushing in '63. The next year, he made the decision to switch Paul Warfield to WR rather than DB or RB.

Good decision to make Warfield a WR. PB made a similar decision with Dub Jones, who he traded for because of his defensive abilities. Jones was switched to offense where the Browns could take advantage of his running and pass catching.

IMO, Collier's best coaching job was in 1968 when he he helped improve the Browns enough to beat Dallas in the playoff game and get to the NFL Championship game. They also were the only team to beat Baltimore during the regular season. Some changes that year were Jack Gregory at RDE, Ben Davis at RCB, John De Marie at LG, Mike Howell at RS, Billy Andrews at RLB, Ron Snidow at LDE, Bo Scott at HB, and Bill Nelson at QB. That is a lot of changes to the starting lineup, but it all worked pretty well.

Reminds me of Cleveland's 1954 team and Detroit's 1956 team. Massive changes that made the teams better.

[Jay Z]

So why did Paul Brown experience the 1956 to 1962 fall off?

[Saban1]

So why did Paul Brown experience the 1956 to 1962 fall off?

No Otto Graham and the New York Giants.

[BD Sullivan]

So why did Paul Brown experience the 1956 to 1962 fall off?

They didn't really fall off that much for most of that period: They made the 1957 title game, should have made it again in '58. In '59, they had a 6-2 record and were tied with the Giants, then had consecutive one-point losses at home while the Giants kept winning. Then the Giants obliterated them in Week 11 to end any hope of a comeback.

In '60, they were a game behind Philly in Week 8, then lost to a weak Steelers team and tied the Cardinals to take them out of contention. The folllowing year, they were 7-3 and a game behind the Giants when NY came to Cleveland and won 37-21. Even in Week 13, they were still only a game behind the Giants and Philly, but a costly loss to the Bears killed any playoff hopes.

In '62, Jim Brown's sprained wrist didn't help matters, but it was obvious that Paul Brown's influence had worn off. In Week 12, they got blown out by the Cowboys and he then annoyed the hell out of the players by staying in Cleveland for the final week of practice (in the midst of heavy snow), instead of just going out to SF.