Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Two SB-winners not only leading their respective teams to a Lombardi mainly with defense despite offense being their forte, but two of the best defenses in the past 30-some years. Gruden has one extra playoff berth (5 to 4) and one extra winning season (6-5) over Billick, but does anyone still give Billick the nod anyway? He did build his SB-winner from scratch whereas Gruden inherited Tampa, but then again Gruden built Oakland from scratch as well and it could be argued had he stayed by the Bay, he would have won a SB anyway. I think so. Just the same, a real tough one to call.

74_75_78_79_ wrote:Two SB-winners not only leading their respective teams to a Lombardi mainly with defense despite offense being their forte, but two of the best defenses in the past 30-some years. Gruden has one extra playoff berth (5 to 4) and one extra winning season (6-5) over Billick, but does anyone still give Billick the nod anyway? He did build his SB-winner from scratch whereas Gruden inherited Tampa, but then again Gruden built Oakland from scratch as well and it could be argued had he stayed by the Bay, he would have won a SB anyway. I think so. Just the same, a real tough one to call.

I'm surprised Billick hasn't gotten another shot. His book, More Than A Game, was pretty good, although that may have had more to do with Michael MacCambridge than Billick himself. But he also comes across very well in Next Man Up, John Feinstein's book about the 2004 Baltimore Ravens, which is one of my all-time favourite football books.

Gruden has always been a larger-than-life kind of guy, I can understand why he's remained in the broadcast booth. But I think there's little doubt that these are two of the smartest guys to be on the sidelines over the last several decades.

Jeremy Crowhurst wrote:

74_75_78_79_ wrote:Two SB-winners not only leading their respective teams to a Lombardi mainly with defense despite offense being their forte, but two of the best defenses in the past 30-some years. Gruden has one extra playoff berth (5 to 4) and one extra winning season (6-5) over Billick, but does anyone still give Billick the nod anyway? He did build his SB-winner from scratch whereas Gruden inherited Tampa, but then again Gruden built Oakland from scratch as well and it could be argued had he stayed by the Bay, he would have won a SB anyway. I think so. Just the same, a real tough one to call.

I'm surprised Billick hasn't gotten another shot. His book, More Than A Game, was pretty good, although that may have had more to do with Michael MacCambridge than Billick himself. But he also comes across very well in Next Man Up, John Feinstein's book about the 2004 Baltimore Ravens, which is one of my all-time favourite football books.

Gruden has always been a larger-than-life kind of guy, I can understand why he's remained in the broadcast booth. But I think there's little doubt that these are two of the smartest guys to be on the sidelines over the last several decades.

While both have major league egos, Billick has more than helping of arrogance attached that probably rubs GM's, etc. the wrong way.

I learned a lot more from Billick's book (Developing An Offensive Game Plan) than I ever did from watching Gruden's QB show so I'm going with Billick...

JuggernautJ wrote:I learned a lot more from Billick's book (Developing An Offensive Game Plan) than I ever did from watching Gruden's QB show so I'm going with Billick...

I have to go with Billick also. Gruden pretty much inherited the team that Tony Dungy built and was the spark needed to put them over the top. From that point on, it seemed his teams underachieved particularly in the postseason. Billick has to get a lot of credit for the offensive machine in Minnesota in 1998 when he was the OC. The Ravens 2000 defense is in my opinion the best single season defense since the 1985 Bears, and he deserves a good bit of credit for that also. .

Not really a fan of either guy. I agree that its strange Billick never got a second bite at the apple considering how many recycled coaches there are in the NFL. The one thing that stands out to me is Billick's decision to not bring back Trent Dilfer after the Super Bowl and instead brought in Elvis Grbac to take over at QB. A very ballsy move that kind of makes sense from a 'performance' standpoint, but I heard it was really just Billick's ego getting hurt. Apparently all of the Ravens players loved Dilfer and would do anything for him...Billick took that as a personal affront and said good-bye to Dilfer.

74_75_78_79_ wrote:Two SB-winners not only leading their respective teams to a Lombardi mainly with defense despite offense being their forte, but two of the best defenses in the past 30-some years. Gruden has one extra playoff berth (5 to 4) and one extra winning season (6-5) over Billick, but does anyone still give Billick the nod anyway? He did build his SB-winner from scratch whereas Gruden inherited Tampa, but then again Gruden built Oakland from scratch as well and it could be argued had he stayed by the Bay, he would have won a SB anyway. I think so. Just the same, a real tough one to call.

Actually, Ozzie Newsome built the team. Billick only coached it.

rhickok1109 wrote:

74_75_78_79_ wrote:Two SB-winners not only leading their respective teams to a Lombardi mainly with defense despite offense being their forte, but two of the best defenses in the past 30-some years. Gruden has one extra playoff berth (5 to 4) and one extra winning season (6-5) over Billick, but does anyone still give Billick the nod anyway? He did build his SB-winner from scratch whereas Gruden inherited Tampa, but then again Gruden built Oakland from scratch as well and it could be argued had he stayed by the Bay, he would have won a SB anyway. I think so. Just the same, a real tough one to call.

Actually, Ozzie Newsome built the team. Billick only coached it.

Plus, it's ironic that the one Super Bowl win was primarily due to the dominating defense and that Billick was never able to establish the type of offensive power he had as an assistant.

rhickok1109 wrote:

74_75_78_79_ wrote:Two SB-winners not only leading their respective teams to a Lombardi mainly with defense despite offense being their forte, but two of the best defenses in the past 30-some years. Gruden has one extra playoff berth (5 to 4) and one extra winning season (6-5) over Billick, but does anyone still give Billick the nod anyway? He did build his SB-winner from scratch whereas Gruden inherited Tampa, but then again Gruden built Oakland from scratch as well and it could be argued had he stayed by the Bay, he would have won a SB anyway. I think so. Just the same, a real tough one to call.

Actually, Ozzie Newsome built the team. Billick only coached it.

True. How can I forget to mention Ozzie? Should have simply said Billick took a losing team and made them instant winners. I wonder what it was that made Marchibroda struggle those first few years in Balt leading up to Billick. Remember when Shula flirted with coaching them after he 'resigned' from Miami?

74_75_78_79_ wrote:

rhickok1109 wrote:

74_75_78_79_ wrote:Two SB-winners not only leading their respective teams to a Lombardi mainly with defense despite offense being their forte, but two of the best defenses in the past 30-some years. Gruden has one extra playoff berth (5 to 4) and one extra winning season (6-5) over Billick, but does anyone still give Billick the nod anyway? He did build his SB-winner from scratch whereas Gruden inherited Tampa, but then again Gruden built Oakland from scratch as well and it could be argued had he stayed by the Bay, he would have won a SB anyway. I think so. Just the same, a real tough one to call.

Actually, Ozzie Newsome built the team. Billick only coached it.

I wonder what it was that made Marchibroda struggle those first few years in Balt leading up to Billick.

The first year, they had a terrible defense.

The second year, they lost SIX games by four points or less, three by two points or less and had one tie to finish 6-9-1.

The third year, Eric Zeier started four games (1-3) when Harbaugh was injured. Plus, Marchibroda's job status was in question all year--supposedly Modell had made nine wins the minimum number to keep his job--they finished 6-10. Plus, the offense couldn't score--they were held to less than 14 points in nine games, which explains why they went after the hot OC in Billick after the season.