Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Can any of you actually place one above the other? It's all but dead-even to me.

Landry

Both were blessed with excellent personnel people: Landry had Gil Brandt for the entire run. Meanwhile, in his Miami years. Shula arrived after Joe Thomas had stocked the Dolphins with raw but quality players. After he left, Bobby Beathard ran the draft from 1973 until leaving for Washington in 1978.

During Beathard's first two years with Washington, their first pick in '78 was in the 6th round and in '79, the earliest pick was in the 4th. In '78, they didn't really pick up anyone, but in '79, they got Don Warren, Monte Coleman and Rich Milot.

I think that Dallas had more talent overall, but Shulas's teams played in 6 Super Bowls to the Cowboys 5. Both won 2.

Don Meredith put it this way: Shula would adjust his system to the personnel he had. The Dallas organization would get Landry the players to make his system work.

BD Sullivan wrote:Both were blessed with excellent personnel people: Landry had Gil Brandt for the entire run. Meanwhile, in his Miami years. Shula arrived after Joe Thomas had stocked the Dolphins with raw but quality players. After he left, Bobby Beathard ran the draft from 1973 until leaving for Washington in 1978.

During Beathard's first two years with Washington, their first pick in '78 was in the 6th round and in '79, the earliest pick was in the 4th. In '78, they didn't really pick up anyone, but in '79, they got Don Warren, Monte Coleman and Rich Milot.

In 1978 they pick RB Tony Green in the 6th round, who went to the Pro Bowl as a kick and punt returner as a rookie. The following year he split the season between the Giants and Seahawks, then he never played again. Antyone knows why he left Washington in 1979 and that his career, who appear promising after his rookie season, was too short

Landry was much more of an innovator. Hell, he was the offensive and defensive coordinator for many years.

Teo wrote:

BD Sullivan wrote:Both were blessed with excellent personnel people: Landry had Gil Brandt for the entire run. Meanwhile, in his Miami years. Shula arrived after Joe Thomas had stocked the Dolphins with raw but quality players. After he left, Bobby Beathard ran the draft from 1973 until leaving for Washington in 1978.

During Beathard's first two years with Washington, their first pick in '78 was in the 6th round and in '79, the earliest pick was in the 4th. In '78, they didn't really pick up anyone, but in '79, they got Don Warren, Monte Coleman and Rich Milot.

In 1978 they pick RB Tony Green in the 6th round, who went to the Pro Bowl as a kick and punt returner as a rookie. The following year he split the season between the Giants and Seahawks, then he never played again. Antyone knows why he left Washington in 1979 and that his career, who appear promising after his rookie season, was too short

The Redskins tried to use him at RB, but he flopped there. There were some controversial rumblings that his courage to take regular hits was lacking and that Pardee didn't like his supposed casual demeanor.

BD Sullivan wrote:During Beathard's first two years with Washington, their first pick in '78 was in the 6th round and in '79, the earliest pick was in the 4th. In '78, they didn't really pick up anyone, but in '79, they got Don Warren, Monte Coleman and Rich Milot.

And also Neal Olkiewicz, who they brought in as an undrafted free agent. You're right, it was a great job of drafting (or just signing) without any top picks. They got four guys who must've played more than 50 years with the team altogether, and probably had ten or more Super Bowl appearances between them.

Tom Landry was one of the great innovators in NFL history, on both sides of the ball. The 4-3 defense in NY, the Flex, the shotgun. (I know he didnt invent the shotgun, but he certainly developed it for the modern game.)
Shula was a much more flexible coach. The contrast between the 1973 and 1984 teams is amazing. Landry's rigidness hurt him in the 1980's. The Flex defense wasn't as effective against the pass. I believe Terry Bradshaw once said the way to beat the Flex was to pass on first down. Of course, other teams caught up to the Cowboys front office as well. In the 1960's, Dallas was the only team using a computer for drafting. 15 years later, they all were. The Cowboys reaches didn't pan out, and they had some bad luck as well (like Mike Sherrard.)
Shula made the playoffs in 4 out of his last 6 teams, and it likely would have been 5 times if not for Marino's injury. His last team had some problems, but he still went out on a better note than Landry did...or Jimmy Johnson for that matter.

Well, Shula has more wins, and the same number of titles, so I'll give him the edge as a pure coach. As far as impact on the game, that would definitely go to the Man in the Hat.

No question it was Landry. Landry was an innovator, and unlike most innovators he made his mark on both sides of the ball. While he didn't invent the Shotgun (it had been around in some form since at least 1945), he was the one who is responsible for putting Shotgun formations in every NFL playbook. Landry's teams generally played well in big games, while Shula perhaps played it too conservatively and his teams lost big in a couple big games they probably should have won, the 1964 NFL Championship, 1967 Week 14 vs the Rams for the division and Super Bowl III come to mind. His teams also had a tendency to not make proper adjustments in the second half of Super Bowls, as in five Super Bowls the Dolphins only scored one TD in the final half of any of those games, and that was in Super Bowl VIII when the game was over. In the second half of Super Bowls, Shula's Dolphins gave up a total of 55 points.