"AP Only" School of Thought

[JohnTurney]

I tried to lay it out best I could, some agree, some don't. We will see what Barry Wilner things


http://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com/ ... wards.html

Wednesday, January 20, 2016
Pro Football Writers of America Awards and the "AP Only" School of Thought
PERSPECTIVE
by John Turney

[Reaser]

This has been discussed many times here. My opinion is known (same as yours) ...

... So I agree with all of that in the article, except the part about younger people? I grew up with the internet and was never confused about the awards and all-pro teams. So, for one, that isn't an excuse for any younger person to not know what they're talking about. Second and more importantly, the blame - if there needs to be blame on a generation and/or older v. younger - would be on the older people. Such as the older people that vote for the AP team that have for years made claims, indirectly and directly, that the AP team was the official all-pro team of the NFL. Or the older people running TV networks that only show the AP all-pro team or awards during their shows. And so on. How can a younger person be the blame for watching NFL Network and seeing the NFL's own network (based on decisions by older people) scrolling the AP all-pro team and hyping up the NFL award show (with the AP awards) and so on. That's another generation pushing and giving out false information to the generation(s) following them.

That would be the only part of the article that read 'funny', to me. For the reasons listed above.

[Reaser]

On the topic of "AP Only", slightly, and probably only interesting to myself. Years prior I had 'found' and was vaguely aware of the PFRA's existence but in my mid-20's I re-found the PFRA and my first post on a PFRA forum was titled: "Since when is the AP Official?" setting up a rant about this very subject - because earlier that day I had seen an AP voter saying that the AP 'team' was THE official all-pro team of the NFL.

[Retro Rider]

Thanks Mr. Turney for your contributions to the awards section at the PFWA site. From 1967-1974 they list no NFL or AFL MVP/Player of the Year selections, but some local PFWA chapters announced post-season honors during those years, such as in 1969 when the New York Chapter of the PFWA named Daryle Lamonica & Joe Kapp "Player of the Year" in their respective leagues. Do you think PFWA will eventually incorporate those local chapter awards as well?

Kapp & Lamonica 1969 PFWA Players Yr..jpg (156.35 KiB) Viewed 14430 times

Kapp & Lamonica 1969 PFWA Players Yr. (2).jpg (54.49 KiB) Viewed 14426 times

http://www.profootballwriters.org/on-fi ... le-player/

[JohnTurney]

Thanks Mr. Turney for your contributions to the awards section at the PFWA site. From 1967-1974 they list no NFL or AFL MVP/Player of the Year selections, but some local PFWA chapters announced post-season honors during those years, such as in 1969 when the New York Chapter of the PFWA named Daryle Lamonica & Joe Kapp "Player of the Year" in their respective leagues. Do you think PFWA will eventually incorporate those local chapter awards as well?

Kapp & Lamonica 1969 PFWA Players Yr..jpg

Kapp & Lamonica 1969 PFWA Players Yr. (2).jpg

http://www.profootballwriters.org/on-fi ... le-player/

I am currently, along will Paul Klatt, helping the PFWA correct their own records. However, they will likely not use the NY Chapter of the PFWA's awards.



I think they are interesting and valid since many of the writers back in the day were in NYC anyway.They also did AFL/AFC ....

anyway here is list

PFWA - New York Chapter Awards

Most Valuable Player
1965 Jim Brown, RB, Cle - NFL Lance Alworth, FL, SD - AFL
1966 Bart Starr, QB, GB - NFL Jim Nance, FB, Bos - AFL
1967 Johnny Unitas, QB, Bal - NFL Daryle Lamonica, QB, Oak - AFL
1968 Earl Morrall, QB, Bal - NFL Joe Namath, QB, NYJ - AFL
1969 Joe Kapp, QB, Min - NFL Daryle Lamonica, QB, Oak - AFL
1970 George Blanda, PK-QB, Oak - AFC John Brodie, QB, SF - NFC
1971 Bob Griese, QB, Mia - AFC Alan Page, DT, Min - NFC
1972 O.J. Simpson, RB, Buf - AFC Larry Brown, RB, Was - NFC
1973 O.J. Simpson, RB, Buf - AFC Fran Tarkenton, QB, Min - NFC
1974 Joe Greene, DT, Pit - AFC Terry Metcalf, RB, StL - NFC
1975 O.J. Simpson, RB, Buf - AFC Fran Tarkenton, QB, Min - NFC
1976 Bert Jones, QB, Bal - AFC Chuck Foreman, RB, Min - NFC

[Retro Rider]

Thanks John for that information and for providing a complete list of NY Chapter winners (Terry Metcalf over Jim Hart for the 1974 NFC MVP award - that's interesting). The Wisconsin Chapter gave out awards as well (starting in the late 1960's I believe). I recently found a Google news link with information on their 1971 awards dinner. Gary Cuozzo was named "Comeback Player of the Year" for 1970:

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=S ... 6%2C102685

[JohnTurney]

Thanks John for that information and for providing a complete list of NY Chapter winners (Terry Metcalf over Jim Hart for the 1974 NFC MVP award - that's interesting). The Wisconsin Chapter gave out awards as well (starting in the late 1960's I believe). I recently found a Google news link with information on their 1971 awards dinner. Gary Cuozzo was named "Comeback Player of the Year" for 1970:

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=S ... 6%2C102685

thanks, was not aware of that Comeback player, will add that

the Wisconsin PFWA chapter had a lineman of the year award--and if you are PFRA memebr go to embers section and download the spreadsheets for the awards it has these awards and others
here are winners

Wisconsin Pro Football Writers

Forrest Gregg Award
NFL Offensive Lineman of the Year
1970 Gale Gillingham, OG, GB
1971 John Niland, OG, Dal
1972 Larry Little, OG, Mia
1973 Reggie McKenzie, OG, Buf
1974 Ron Yary, OT, Min
1975 Dan Dierdorf, OT, StL
1976 Joe DeLamielleure, OG, Buf
1977 Russ Washington, OT, SD
1978 Mick Tingelhoff, C, Min
1979 John Hannah, OG, NE
1980 Leon Gray, OT, Hou
1981 Mike Webster, C, Pit
1982 Marvin Powell, OT, NYJ

[Retro Rider]

Bump ...

I read this NFL.com article a couple days ago and found it somewhat interesting - even though the author used an "AP Only" approach. His claim that Jerry Rice never won an NFL MVP award really took the cake. Rice was the consensus MVP in '87 (ditto for Sanders in '97). He totally ignores Randall Cunningham's PFWA MVP selection in 1990. It's sad that an NFL.com analyst would choose to take the "AP Only" approach and give limited/incorrect facts to his readers.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... t-it-wrong

[JohnTurney]

Bump ...

I read this NFL.com article a couple days ago and found it somewhat interesting - even though the author used an "AP Only" approach. His claim that Jerry Rice never won an NFL MVP award really took the cake. Rice was the consensus MVP in '87 (ditto for Sanders in '97). He totally ignores Randall Cunningham's PFWA MVP selection in 1990. It's sad that an NFL.com analyst would choose to take the "AP Only" approach and give limited/incorrect facts to his readers.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... t-it-wrong

And it's too bad and also typical. Elliot is a smart guy, too. But his network hosts the "AP Awards" so he likely is trying to not stir up the pot..or he may just not be aware of how things were published back then and that NFL never had official awards, unless you count the Joe Carr Trophy or PFWA All_pro Teams in 1970 and 1971

[bachslunch]

John, enjoyed reading this, and it's a point that I believe can't be made often enough.

As more people become interested in this issue, they (as I did) likely turned early on to the Pro Football Reference website because it's easy to access and usually (but not always) accurate. Unfortunately, they have an "AP is the only one that really matters" approach to all pro teams, up top where most quick scanning readers will likely look -- though at least they now list every organization and every year further down in the players record. I suspect many folks are just too lazy to look near the bottom of the entry and count up all the different years that any group gave out an all pro award, which seems like the best way to figure this.

When I first became interested in this subject, I went with PFRs AP bias because frankly I didn't know any better. Coming to the PFRA site was a real education on this, and though it took a while, it became clear the folks here were right. John's article is a good distillation of the argument that one needs to consider the bigger picture. Have been all-inclusive when listing honors profiles for a long time now as a result.

I still use the PFR site often and find it useful, but take its biases with the big grain of salt it deserves. Too bad everyone doesn't do this. I often see folks who post on websites who take the AP only approach, and I'm quick to tell them to think otherwise and why. And agreed, it's especially unfortunate to see someone in the media buy into the AP only approach.