Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Joe Walton is known more today as a former coach than as a former player. After looking at another website that rates players value to their teams from 0 to 20, Walton was rated at 5 for the 1963 season. It occurred to me that Walton was one of the most underrated players on the 1963 New York Giants. Of course, on the Giants then were players like Gifford, Huff, Robustelli, Shofner, and Y.A. Tittle, so Walton may have been overshadowed by other teammates. Also, tight end Walton had a backup named Aaron Thomas, who was a very good receiver. I suppose there were some who thought that Thomas should have been the starter instead of Walton.

From what I have read in different places, Walton may have been a better blocker and all around player than Thomas was, even though Thomas may have been a better receiver. Walton did make some big catches in his 3 seasons with the Giants, even though Shofner and Rote(1961) and Gifford (1962 and 1963) were considered the big receivers for th team.

Anyway, I think that Joe Walton was very underrated during his three years with the Giants (1961-1963). Do others here agree?

Walton was part of a huge three team deal on 7/6/61: He and fellow receiver Jim Podoley came over from the Redskins; the Giants traded PK John Aveni, receiver Jerry Daniels and DB Dave Whitsell and also dealt rookie K Allen Green and a sixth round pick in '62 to Dallas, who then sent DE Fred Dugan to the Redskins. That draft pick was used wisely by the Boys, who ended up with George Andrie.

BD Sullivan wrote:Walton was part of a huge three team deal on 7/6/61: He and fellow receiver Jim Podoley came over from the Redskins; the Giants traded PK John Aveni, receiver Jerry Daniels and DB Dave Whitsell and also dealt rookie K Allen Green and a sixth round pick in '62 to Dallas, who then sent DE Fred Dugan to the Redskins. That draft pick was used wisely by the Boys, who ended up with George Andrie.

I agree. Andrie was pretty good.

Anecdotal evidence only but my father, an old Pittsburgh guy (Born and raised, went to Pitt) said Joe Walton was a better player than coach.
Not that he was unbiased or any more qualified to make that judgement than the average Joe but that was his (oft stated) opinion.

From Wikipedia:
"Walton helped lead the Pittsburgh Panthers to the 1956 Sugar Bowl following the 1955 season and then to the 1956 Gator Bowl in his senior season. In 1955, his junior year Walton was selected an All-American. In 1956 he was named the co-captain of Pitt's team, was a unanimous selection as a first-team All-American and was named the Academic All-American team. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Walton

Y.A. Tittle once called Joe Walton "the best third-down receiver in the game, bar none." That was according to Andy Robustelli in his book about his career.

Saban wrote:Joe Walton is known more today as a former coach than as a former player. After looking at another website that rates players value to their teams from 0 to 20, Walton was rated at 5 for the 1963 season. It occurred to me that Walton was one of the most underrated players on the 1963 New York Giants. Of course, on the Giants then were players like Gifford, Huff, Robustelli, Shofner, and Y.A. Tittle, so Walton may have been overshadowed by other teammates. Also, tight end Walton had a backup named Aaron Thomas, who was a very good receiver. I suppose there were some who thought that Thomas should have been the starter instead of Walton.

From what I have read in different places, Walton may have been a better blocker and all around player than Thomas was, even though Thomas may have been a better receiver. Walton did make some big catches in his 3 seasons with the Giants, even though Shofner and Rote(1961) and Gifford (1962 and 1963) were considered the big receivers for th team.

Anyway, I think that Joe Walton was very underrated during his three years with the Giants (1961-1963). Do others here agree?

Speaking of the website that ranks players value from 0 to 20 (approximate value it is called), Andy Robustelli went from 11 to 7 from 1962 to 1963 and Jack Stroud went from 10 to 7 in those same years. Not sure how much you can go by that, but I noticed that neither Robustelli nor Stroud were named to either 1st or 2nd team All-Pro in 1963 for the first time in years. I watched a lot of the 1963 Giants and Stroud seemed to almost always make his blocks that year. Maybe it was because of their ages (Stroud was 35 in 1963 and Robustelli turned 38 in December of that year).

The offensive tackles that were named All-Pro 1st or 2nd team (AP or UP) in 1963 were Dick Schafrath, Forrest Gregg, Rosey Brown, and Charlie Bradshaw. For defensive end that year it was Doug Atkins, Willie Davis, Jim Katcavage, and Gino Marchetti with Bill Glass being named to the AP 2nd team All-Pro.

Alex Webster dropped from 11 in 1962 to 4 in 1963 in approximate value, but Alex was injured and missed about half the season in 1963. Webster had great seasons in 1961 and 1962, but wasn't named to any All-Pro teams in those years. Kind of hard for a fullback to get named All-Pro with guys like Jim Brown, Jim Taylor, John Henry Johnson, etc around at the same time. Alex Webster gained over 900 yards rushing in 1961 and over 700 yards in 1962. Alex also caught 47 passes in 1962.

Saban wrote:

Saban wrote:Joe Walton is known more today as a former coach than as a former player. After looking at another website that rates players value to their teams from 0 to 20, Walton was rated at 5 for the 1963 season. It occurred to me that Walton was one of the most underrated players on the 1963 New York Giants. Of course, on the Giants then were players like Gifford, Huff, Robustelli, Shofner, and Y.A. Tittle, so Walton may have been overshadowed by other teammates. Also, tight end Walton had a backup named Aaron Thomas, who was a very good receiver. I suppose there were some who thought that Thomas should have been the starter instead of Walton.

From what I have read in different places, Walton may have been a better blocker and all around player than Thomas was, even though Thomas may have been a better receiver. Walton did make some big catches in his 3 seasons with the Giants, even though Shofner and Rote(1961) and Gifford (1962 and 1963) were considered the big receivers for th team.

Anyway, I think that Joe Walton was very underrated during his three years with the Giants (1961-1963). Do others here agree?

Speaking of the website that ranks players value from 0 to 20 (approximate value it is called), Andy Robustelli went from 11 to 7 from 1962 to 1963 and Jack Stroud went from 10 to 7 in those same years. Not sure how much you can go by that, but I noticed that neither Robustelli nor Stroud were named to either 1st or 2nd team All-Pro in 1963 for the first time in years. I watched a lot of the 1963 Giants and Stroud seemed to almost always make his blocks that year. Maybe it was because of their ages (Stroud was 35 in 1963 and Robustelli turned 38 in December of that year).

The offensive tackles that were named All-Pro 1st or 2nd team (AP or UP) in 1963 were Dick Schafrath, Forrest Gregg, Rosey Brown, and Charlie Bradshaw. For defensive end that year it was Doug Atkins, Willie Davis, Jim Katcavage, and Gino Marchetti with Bill Glass being named to the AP 2nd team All-Pro.

Alex Webster dropped from 11 in 1962 to 4 in 1963 in approximate value, but Alex was injured and missed about half the season in 1963. Webster had great seasons in 1961 and 1962, but wasn't named to any All-Pro teams in those years. Kind of hard for a fullback to get named All-Pro with guys like Jim Brown, Jim Taylor, John Henry Johnson, etc around at the same time. Alex Webster gained over 900 yards rushing in 1961 and over 700 yards in 1962. Alex also caught 47 passes in 1962.

Alex Webster was the kind of back I was referring to in an earlier post. Not a so-called superstar, but would keep the chains moving running and receiving.

SixtiesFan wrote:

Saban wrote:

Saban wrote:Joe Walton is known more today as a former coach than as a former player. After looking at another website that rates players value to their teams from 0 to 20, Walton was rated at 5 for the 1963 season. It occurred to me that Walton was one of the most underrated players on the 1963 New York Giants. Of course, on the Giants then were players like Gifford, Huff, Robustelli, Shofner, and Y.A. Tittle, so Walton may have been overshadowed by other teammates. Also, tight end Walton had a backup named Aaron Thomas, who was a very good receiver. I suppose there were some who thought that Thomas should have been the starter instead of Walton.

From what I have read in different places, Walton may have been a better blocker and all around player than Thomas was, even though Thomas may have been a better receiver. Walton did make some big catches in his 3 seasons with the Giants, even though Shofner and Rote(1961) and Gifford (1962 and 1963) were considered the big receivers for th team.

Anyway, I think that Joe Walton was very underrated during his three years with the Giants (1961-1963). Do others here agree?

Speaking of the website that ranks players value from 0 to 20 (approximate value it is called), Andy Robustelli went from 11 to 7 from 1962 to 1963 and Jack Stroud went from 10 to 7 in those same years. Not sure how much you can go by that, but I noticed that neither Robustelli nor Stroud were named to either 1st or 2nd team All-Pro in 1963 for the first time in years. I watched a lot of the 1963 Giants and Stroud seemed to almost always make his blocks that year. Maybe it was because of their ages (Stroud was 35 in 1963 and Robustelli turned 38 in December of that year).

The offensive tackles that were named All-Pro 1st or 2nd team (AP or UP) in 1963 were Dick Schafrath, Forrest Gregg, Rosey Brown, and Charlie Bradshaw. For defensive end that year it was Doug Atkins, Willie Davis, Jim Katcavage, and Gino Marchetti with Bill Glass being named to the AP 2nd team All-Pro.

Alex Webster dropped from 11 in 1962 to 4 in 1963 in approximate value, but Alex was injured and missed about half the season in 1963. Webster had great seasons in 1961 and 1962, but wasn't named to any All-Pro teams in those years. Kind of hard for a fullback to get named All-Pro with guys like Jim Brown, Jim Taylor, John Henry Johnson, etc around at the same time. Alex Webster gained over 900 yards rushing in 1961 and over 700 yards in 1962. Alex also caught 47 passes in 1962.

Alex Webster was the kind of back I was referring to in an earlier post. Not a so-called superstar, but would keep the chains moving running and receiving.

Webster was one of my favorite New York Giants. I noticed how strong and what a hard runner he was in 1955, which was his first year with the Giants.

Another Giants player whose AV (approximate value) dropped a few points in 1963 was Jimmy Patton. Patton's AV was 13 in 1960, 15 in 1961, 12 in 1962, and dropped to 7 in 1963. Also, after being almost unanimous 1st team All-Pro for 5 straight years (1958-62), Patton was not named to either 1st or 2nd team All-Pro by the AP or UP.

Jimmy Patton got 6 interceptions in 1963, but the AP named Richie Petitbon and Roosevelt Taylor to 1st team All-Pro at safety with Yale Lary and Clendon Thomas named to the 2nd team. The UP had Richie Petitbon and Larry Wilson as 1st team All-Pro safeties with Willie Wood and Roosevelt Taylor on their 2nd team.

Part of the reason may have been that teammate Dick Lynch might have stolen some of Patton's thunder in the Giants secondary having a sensational year with 9 interceptions and 3 of them pick 6's. Also, Petitbon and Taylor played for the Bears, and Chicago won the NFL Championship. Petitbon intercepted 8 passes (1 pick 6) in 1963 and Taylor intercepted 9 passes (1 pick 6) in 1963. Larry Wilson had 4 interceptions in 1963 and was known for his safety blitzes.

Amazing that Jimmy Patton was named 1st team All-Pro by both the AP and UP for 5 straight years. 1963 proved just how hard it was/is to keep doing that.

Two other guys who took the pressure off Patton were Erich Barnes and Allan Webb.

Also, Dick Pesonen. Pesonen took over as starting strong safety about midway through the 1963 season when Alan Webb was injured. Dick did so well that I am not sure if Webb ever got his starting job back.

Dick Pesonen started out with Green Bay in 1960, went to Minnesota in 1961 and the Giants in 1962. Don't know if he was traded to New York or was picked up on waivers.