Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Kosar VS Schroeder! Marty VS Gibbs! How does this matchup turnout? Everyone always talks about "when if Giants played Browns?" that year, but what about this particular one between two 12-4 teams? '86 Skins may very well be among the weaker 12-4 teams ever. Nothing to write home about. Giants thrept them; NFCC was such a non-event (despite the pre-game hype I remember it receiving at the time). Other than thumping the Eagles in Buddy's very first game and thumping a faltering-down-the-stretch Dallas near season's end, all their other wins were not by all that much even against weak teams. Denver did beat them next-to-last game. I think Browns beat them too, even at RFK.

74_75_78_79_ wrote:Kosar VS Schroeder! Marty VS Gibbs! How does this matchup turnout? Everyone always talks about "when if Giants played Browns?" that year, but what about this particular one between two 12-4 teams? '86 Skins may very well be among the weaker 12-4 teams ever. Nothing to write home about. Giants thrept them; NFCC was such a non-event (despite the pre-game hype I remember it receiving at the time). Other than thumping the Eagles in Buddy's very first game and thumping a faltering-down-the-stretch Dallas near season's end, all their other wins were not by all that much even against weak teams. Denver did beat them next-to-last game. I think Browns beat them too, even at RFK.

Until the last two games of the regular season, the Browns were something of an up-and-down team: they won five games by a field goal--having to go to OT at home against lousy Steeler and Oiler teams, and they beat the 4-9 Bills by four points.

The Skins looked to be faltering down the stretch, losing in Week 14 to the Giants, followed by the Denver loss. Then, they stunk so badly in the first half against Philly (losing 14-0) that Joe Gibbs lost it in the locker room--with one player amazed that he was able to scream at them without swearing, LOL. They bounced back to wqin 21-14, then used six turnovers to beat the Rams in the Wild Card game--even though L.A. outgained them 324-228 in total yards. The next week, they completely dominated in the second half to beat the Flutie-led Bears, forcing four more turnovers, with Chicago blowing a number of chances to score, but the Skins ran out of gas against the Giants.

I think Kosar would have been able to avoid making such mistakes, so I'd go with the Browns.

Come on- the Redskins couldn't be THAT weak a 12-4 team. It was the one year Jay Schroeder looked like a competent QB.

They ain't the '95 Chiefs.

CSKreager wrote:Come on- the Redskins couldn't be THAT weak a 12-4 team. It was the one year Jay Schroeder looked like a competent QB.

They ain't the '95 Chiefs.

*They beat the Raiders, 10-6, trailing midway through the fourth quarter.

*They beat the Chargers, 30-27, trailing by four with less than two minutes left and 69 yards away.

*They beat the Seahawks, 19-14, with Steve Cox hitting a 57-yard FG, the Seahawks scoring with just under two minutes left, then throwing a failed Hail Mary on the final play.

*They beat the Saints, 14-6, with neither team scoring in the second half.

*They beat the Cardinals, 28-21, after leading 21-0. The Cardinals had first down at the Skins 14 with 24 seconds left and no time outs, with Charles Mann sacking Lomax, who injured his ankle. Lomax was forced to quickly throw an incompletion before giving way to Cliff Stoudt, who could only manage a five-yard completion.

*They beat the Vikings 44-38 in overtime, after trailing 38-26 with seven minutes left before tying the game with 1:03 remaining. Tommy Kramer torched the Skins for 490 yards passing and Minny's fourth quarter interception wasn't allowed because it was ruled a drop. Max Zendejas was brutal for Washington, missing three extra points.

*They beat the Pack in a frozen tundra game (on November 9!), 16-7, knocking out Randy Wright, which brought in Chuck Fusina. With the combined miserable weather and Fusina's lack of talent, the Skins turned a 7-6 halftime deficit into a 3Q touchdown and fourth quarter FG. Zendejas missed another XP.

*They beat the Niners, 14-6, in another rubber band game for the defense, with Montana throwing for 441 yards. SF had 15 penalties called against them and four turnovers.

*They beat the Cardinals, 20-17, with Zendejas kicking a FG with four seconds left.

I already mentioned the regular season finale comeback against the Eagles, but I'd say at least 3-4 of the above games could very well have been losses which would have put them in the 9-7, or even 8-8, category.

BD Sullivan wrote:

CSKreager wrote:Come on- the Redskins couldn't be THAT weak a 12-4 team. It was the one year Jay Schroeder looked like a competent QB.

They ain't the '95 Chiefs.

*They beat the Raiders, 10-6, trailing midway through the fourth quarter.

*They beat the Chargers, 30-27, trailing by four with less than two minutes left and 69 yards away.

*They beat the Seahawks, 19-14, with Steve Cox hitting a 57-yard FG, the Seahawks scoring with just under two minutes left, then throwing a failed Hail Mary on the final play.

*They beat the Saints, 14-6, with neither team scoring in the second half.

*They beat the Cardinals, 28-21, after leading 21-0. The Cardinals had first down at the Skins 14 with 24 seconds left and no time outs, with Charles Mann sacking Lomax, who injured his ankle. Lomax was forced to quickly throw an incompletion before giving way to Cliff Stoudt, who could only manage a five-yard completion.

*They beat the Vikings 44-38 in overtime, after trailing 38-26 with seven minutes left before tying the game with 1:03 remaining. Tommy Kramer torched the Skins for 490 yards passing and Minny's fourth quarter interception wasn't allowed because it was ruled a drop. Max Zendejas was brutal for Washington, missing three extra points.

*They beat the Pack in a frozen tundra game (on November 9!), 16-7, knocking out Randy Wright, which brought in Chuck Fusina. With the combined miserable weather and Fusina's lack of talent, the Skins turned a 7-6 halftime deficit into a 3Q touchdown and fourth quarter FG. Zendejas missed another XP.

*They beat the Niners, 14-6, in another rubber band game for the defense, with Montana throwing for 441 yards. SF had 15 penalties called against them and four turnovers.

*They beat the Cardinals, 20-17, with Zendejas kicking a FG with four seconds left.

I already mentioned the regular season finale comeback against the Eagles, but I'd say at least 3-4 of the above games could very well have been losses which would have put them in the 9-7, or even 8-8, category.

Can't you do that with every team's schedule? I'm sure some losing teams says "3-4 games we were right in it, with luck, we'd have 12 wins." I think that's what lead Bill Parcells to say, “you are what your record says you are”

[quote="nicefellow31]Can't you do that with every team's schedule? I'm sure some losing teams says "3-4 games we were right it it, with luck, we'd have 12 wins." I think that's what lead Bill Parcells to say, “you are what your record says you are”[/quote]

Exactly. Excellent point.

The 1986 Vikings-Redskins game at RFK its probably one of the top regular season games of all-time and my favorite NFL Films Game of the Week highlight. The Art Monk TD catch was one of the best TD catches I've ever saw, and Clint Didier's last second catch to set up a Max Zenejas' field goal to send the game to OT was not far behind.

nicefellow31 wrote:Can't you do that with every team's schedule? I'm sure some losing teams says "3-4 games we were right in it, with luck, we'd have 12 wins." I think that's what lead Bill Parcells to say, “you are what your record says you are”

Should be the default response to all 'what-if' threads, too. "What if random 8-8 teams had went 12-4, then they would have won this playoff game and that playoff game" ... No. They went 8-8, period.

Teo wrote:The 1986 Vikings-Redskins game at RFK its probably one of the top regular season games of all-time and my favorite NFL Films Game of the Week highlight. The Art Monk TD catch was one of the best TD catches I've ever saw, and Clint Didier's last second catch to set up a Max Zenejas' field goal to send the game to OT was not far behind.

To say that game was one of the 25 greatest regular season games of all time is probably not a stretch. Among best regular season games of the 80's I would rate it in the top five along with the 1982 Chargers 49ers, 1983 Raiders Redskins, 1984 Redskins Cardinals and 1986 Jets Dolphins.

Rupert Patrick wrote:

Teo wrote:The 1986 Vikings-Redskins game at RFK its probably one of the top regular season games of all-time and my favorite NFL Films Game of the Week highlight. The Art Monk TD catch was one of the best TD catches I've ever saw, and Clint Didier's last second catch to set up a Max Zenejas' field goal to send the game to OT was not far behind.

To say that game was one of the 25 greatest regular season games of all time is probably not a stretch. Among best regular season games of the 80's I would rate it in the top five along with the 1982 Chargers 49ers, 1983 Raiders Redskins, 1984 Redskins Cardinals and 1986 Jets Dolphins.

Four of the five were were offensive explosions, and the other (84 Cards-Skins) was a last-week, everything on the line, dramatic finish that saw the Cardinals bounce back from a 23-7 halftime deficit, before then losing 29-27.