Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

I mean, with the rule changes of '78, you think they could have been able to get the ball more to White Shoes Johnson.

Pastorini had been a serviceable passer from about 1974-1977, but even when the team got better, it sometimes felt they won in spite of him.

Really, when you think of those Oilers, you think of Earl, Bum, Curley Culp, and Elvin Bethea. But not Pastorini.

I suppose when you have Earl Campbell to run the ball, you run him until he can't go anymore, which is what happened. I would think Campbell regrets accepting such a regular beating, given the fact that he's basically been in a wheelchair before even reaching the age of 50.

CSKreager wrote:I mean, with the rule changes of '78, you think they could have been able to get the ball more to White Shoes Johnson.

Pastorini had been a serviceable passer from about 1974-1977, but even when the team got better, it sometimes felt they won in spite of him.

Really, when you think of those Oilers, you think of Earl, Bum, Curley Culp, and Elvin Bethea. But not Pastorini.

In his autobiography, Ken Stabler praised Phillips, but criticized the conservative, I formation-based offense he ran in Houston and in New Orleans.

I read Pastorini's autobiography recently - "Taking Flak". It's a very quick read, almost like there really wasn't enough there for a full book, so they made the type bigger and the pages smaller to fill it up.

Read it for yourself if you like, but my takeaway feeling is that Pastorini had no control at all over his personal life, running through wives, affairs and bad decisions like crazy, all the while getting beaten up behind bad offensive lines. He probably could have benefited from the same mid-career break Plunkett had to heal up and clear his mind of shell-shock from pass rushers and get his personal life in order. It's amazing to me that he even made it to the Campbell era really.

The Rams wanted Pastorini badly in the mid-70s, but couldn't get a deal done. I don't know who the Oilers would have turned to then.

Pastorini is on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?i ... 0pastorini) so feel free to drop him a line and see what he thinks about your question.

Evan wrote:I read Pastorini's autobiography recently - "Taking Flak". It's a very quick read, almost like there really wasn't enough there for a full book, so they made the type bigger and the pages smaller to fill it up.

Read it for yourself if you like, but my takeaway feeling is that Pastorini had no control at all over his personal life, running through wives, affairs and bad decisions like crazy, all the while getting beaten up behind bad offensive lines. He probably could have benefited from the same mid-career break Plunkett had to heal up and clear his mind of shell-shock from pass rushers and get his personal life in order. It's amazing to me that he even made it to the Campbell era really.

The Rams wanted Pastorini badly in the mid-70s, but couldn't get a deal done. I don't know who the Oilers would have turned to then.

Pastorini is on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?i ... 0pastorini) so feel free to drop him a line and see what he thinks about your question.

I read Pastorini's book a year ago. I've read that immaturity and/or "terminal adolescence" was a common trait of pro athletes and Dan Pastorini was off the charts. He recounts things in his book that don't make him look good and isn't really aware of it.

Yes, Ram GM Don Klosterman coveted Dan Pastorini. Klosterman thought Pastorini would be a Super Bowl QB with the strong supporting cast the Rams had at the time.

In his 1977 Scout's Notebook, Joel Buscsbaum wrote that if you put John Hadl's head on Dan Pastorini's body you would have the best QB in the NFL.

SixtiesFan wrote:

Evan wrote:Yes, Ram GM Don Klosterman coveted Dan Pastorini. Klosterman thought Pastorini would be a Super Bowl QB with the strong supporting cast the Rams had at the time.

Bum Phillips was asking a ridiculous amount in 1977 for a guy who had never played in a postseason game: #1's in both 1977 and '78; #2's in both '77 and '78; and a #2 in '77 that the Rams had gotten from San Diego in exchange for DE Leroy Jones. With those picks, the Rams picked up:

1977
#1-Bob Brudzinski
#2-Traded, along with Geoff Reece to Seattle to move up from #23 to #3 so that the Rams could select Nolan Cromwell
#2 (from SD)-Billy Waddy
1978
#1-Traded up from #23 to #20 with Cleveland to draft Elvis Peacock. They gave the Browns a #4, which they promptly wasted on a stiff. The Rams moved up because they were afraid that either the Vikes and Steelers would pick Peacock. Interestingly, with that #23 pick, the Browns took future HOFer Ozzie Newsome.
#2-Ronnie Smith

I never understood the Rams issues with QB's in the 70's, this in my opinion was the only reason they did not win a Super Bowl in the 1973-78 window. They had everything else, the defense, a strong rushing game, good receivers, but like the Bears post Super Bowl XX, a "QB of the Month" club. It started with the Gabriel trade, then they brought in a lot of retreads like Hadl and Namath although they were drafting quality talent like Haden and Jaworski. If they would have just stuck with Jaworski and Haden, they would have solved their problems and the two of them would have formed a great combo a la Woodley and Strock or Waterfield and Van Brocklin.

SixtiesFan wrote:

Evan wrote:I read Pastorini's autobiography recently - "Taking Flak". It's a very quick read, almost like there really wasn't enough there for a full book, so they made the type bigger and the pages smaller to fill it up.

Read it for yourself if you like, but my takeaway feeling is that Pastorini had no control at all over his personal life, running through wives, affairs and bad decisions like crazy, all the while getting beaten up behind bad offensive lines. He probably could have benefited from the same mid-career break Plunkett had to heal up and clear his mind of shell-shock from pass rushers and get his personal life in order. It's amazing to me that he even made it to the Campbell era really.

The Rams wanted Pastorini badly in the mid-70s, but couldn't get a deal done. I don't know who the Oilers would have turned to then.

Pastorini is on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?i ... 0pastorini) so feel free to drop him a line and see what he thinks about your question.

I read Pastorini's book a year ago. I've read that immaturity and/or "terminal adolescence" was a common trait of pro athletes and Dan Pastorini was off the charts. He recounts things in his book that don't make him look good and isn't really aware of it.

Yes, Ram GM Don Klosterman coveted Dan Pastorini. Klosterman thought Pastorini would be a Super Bowl QB with the strong supporting cast the Rams had at the time.

In his 1977 Scout's Notebook, Joel Buscsbaum wrote that if you put John Hadl's head on Dan Pastorini's body you would have the best QB in the NFL.

One team Pastorini wanted to go to in 1977 was the Bears, since they had Sid Gilman working as an offensive coach. Pastorini said he wanted to have someone serve as a sounding board or who could help him develop, which he thought Gilman had done during his two seasons-plus with the Oilers. Considering QB was also a Bears' weakness, it's interesting to contemplate as to whether Pastorini would have been able to get them past the Vikes that year and beyond. Instead, the Bears decided to trade for Mike Phipps, who had one decent year in 1979.

Rupert Patrick wrote:I never understood the Rams issues with QB's in the 70's, this in my opinion was the only reason they did not win a Super Bowl in the 1973-78 window. They had everything else, the defense, a strong rushing game, good receivers, but like the Bears post Super Bowl XX, a "QB of the Month" club. It started with the Gabriel trade, then they brought in a lot of retreads like Hadl and Namath although they were drafting quality talent like Haden and Jaworski. If they would have just stuck with Jaworski and Haden, they would have solved their problems and the two of them would have formed a great combo a la Woodley and Strock or Waterfield and Van Brocklin.

The Rams usually had decent QB play in the regular season. 1975 and 1978 are the only years I would say it was below average. Hadl made the Pro Bowl in his up and down 1973 season, and James Harris made it the following year. 1979 was probably the worst QB play by the mid to late 70s Rams. (Of course, the following season, Ferragamo set the Rams record with 30 TD passes.)
The problem was none of the Rams QBs ever stepped up in the postseason like Stabler, Bradshaw, Staubach, or even Griese. In every Rams postseason loss, the passing game seemed to be the weak link. The defense generally performed pretty well except for the two blowout Dallas losses.

conace21 wrote:

Rupert Patrick wrote:I never understood the Rams issues with QB's in the 70's, this in my opinion was the only reason they did not win a Super Bowl in the 1973-78 window. They had everything else, the defense, a strong rushing game, good receivers, but like the Bears post Super Bowl XX, a "QB of the Month" club. It started with the Gabriel trade, then they brought in a lot of retreads like Hadl and Namath although they were drafting quality talent like Haden and Jaworski. If they would have just stuck with Jaworski and Haden, they would have solved their problems and the two of them would have formed a great combo a la Woodley and Strock or Waterfield and Van Brocklin.

The Rams usually had decent QB play in the regular season. 1975 and 1978 are the only years I would say it was below average. Hadl made the Pro Bowl in his up and down 1973 season, and James Harris made it the following year. 1979 was probably the worst QB play by the mid to late 70s Rams.

Naturally, '79 was the season they finally reached the Super Bowl.