Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

Former Giants (1958-63,) Steelers (1964,) and Vikings (1965-66) RB Phil King died January 1973 in Memphis, Tennessee at age 36.
He was the supposedly the victim of an shooting accident while cleaning his gun in a hotel room.
Was there any suspicion of suicide or presence of alcohol?
King was a native Tennessean and played at Vanderbilt. Was there any hint of a cover-up by a home-state PD?
Memphis has long been considered one of the most corrupt cities in the Nation and has been rated as high as
tenth most dangerous city in the U.S.

I live in Middle Tennessee and heard a lot about Phil King in the early 60's as the Nashville papers covered and quoted him often. King was a fairly big hero from being the star of Vanderbilt's 1955 Gator Bowl winning team, Vanderbilt's biggest moment post-WW II.

His death was news, but the official explanation was accepted.

Like practically every Giant veteran I've seen quoted on Allie Sherman, Phil KIng despised him. I recall he blasted Sherman when traded from the Giants. When Alex Webster replaced Sherman as Giant coach, the Nashville papers went to Phil King for a comment. I still remember this.

King said something like "Alex knows what its like to be a player. Sherman didn't."

Thank you. I guess the "official" explanation is "the" explanation.
I don't hunt but I always take a firearm out of the car when staying at a hotel. I've just never felt the need to clean one in a hotel
and have usually left the cleaning kit in the car. So, it seemed a tad strange especially since I seem to recall a (NY?) reporter hinting
at a booze problem and a Sullivan Law violation (not prosecuted) as part of why King was traded?
It's a good job he was a football player because his reading skills might be questioned or he was thinking of the folk singer?
Allie Sherman did play a little football. I think he was the only Brooklyn-born Quarterback to play for the Steagles and stayed
with the Eagles for 4 or 5 years after the second war?
But, again, thank you. As a resident there I am sure you would have heard any rumors that questioned "accidental."
Us boys that actually saw the sixties have to help each other.

King was traded the same day the Giants dealt Joe Don Looney to the Colts, and the same day they cut Hugh McElhenny and Glynn Grffing. I believe they got a third rounder for him from the Steelers in the '65 Draft to select QB Bob Scheikert, who decided to go with the Jets--even though the Jets drafted Namath and Huarte ahead of him.

BD always seems to have the inside scoop.

Maybe the Giants had to cut down to a certain number of players. Always a tough job for the coaches.

The Jets sweetened the pot for Schweikert with $100,000.00 bonus - only half of what they gave Huarte
and one-quarter of what they gave Joe.
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Back in the day - and maybe it is still there - Newsweek had a room known as "the back of the book." It had file cabinets
with data on practically everyone on the planet - birthdates, Baptisms, First Communions, Confirmations, pet names,
8th-grade teachers' names, almost anything you could imagine - and - usually accompanying photos.
Sometimes it seems Brad has a copy of the Sports section of that room and just plucks up the appropriate bit of data.
Many a PFRA member's jaw has gone slack in awe of Mr. Sullivan.
And, thankfully so...

BD Sullivan wrote:King was traded the same day the Giants dealt Joe Don Looney to the Colts, and the same day they cut Hugh McElhenny and Glynn Grffing. I believe they got a third rounder for him from the Steelers in the '65 Draft to select QB Bob Scheikert, who decided to go with the Jets--even though the Jets drafted Namath and Huarte ahead of him.

I had a recollection that Phil King and the New York Giants' 1964 trades were mentioned, so I went to my library and dug out Fran Tarkenton's 1971 book, "Broken Patterns." It's structured as a diary of the New York Giants 1970 season, but the book also discussed (somewhat candidly)Van Brocklin, the Vikings, and the Giants' collapse from 1964-66:

"The Huff trade was like opening a coal chute. From that moment on, nothing worked. To get the great middle linebacker the Redskins gave up Dickie James, a jack-of-all-trades runner and pass receiver who had lost his speed, and Andy Stynchula, a defensive lineman who was past his prime and did not want to play in New York. Neither contributed anything notable to the Giants' cause. To compound the trouble, Sherman traded Dick Modzelweski, a powerful defensive lineman who, like Huff, was a team leader. He went to Cleveland for a modestly talented tight end named Bob Crespino, who never started for the Giants. Running back Phil King went to the Steelers for an inconsequential draft choice. Phil later went to Minnesota and had his third-best year in pro ball."

Tarkenton felt Glynn Griffing was another example of a young QB who couldn't handle being in New York. Of Joe Don Looney, Tarkenton said "Joe Don Looney blew in from Oklahoma with credentials to become another Jimmy Brown. Endowed with great physical skills, Joe simply could not adjust emotionally to the regimens of pro ball and was traded to the Colts for Andy Nelson, a defensive back and R.C. Owens, a flanker. Both had been starters, both were over the hill, both retired without helping the Giants."

Tarkenton credited his Viking coach Norm Van Brocklin with teaching him pro football but said Allie Sherman helped more on quarterbacking technique.

Fran Tarkenton has been involved in several books but "Broken Patterns" is by far the best in my opinion. It has a lot about the NFL in the 1960's and the 1970 season in particular.

I have the book "Broken Patterns," and I like it too, but I had the idea that Tarkenton was sticking up for Sherman saying that he was unlucky. I think that in a later book, Fran said that the Huff trade was a bad one, or something to that effect.

One thing that was unlucky was LoVetere, who the Giants got in the trade for Rosey Grier in 1963. LoVetere, who was a few years younger than Grier, did well at RDT for the Giants, so it looked like that trade would work out. Unfortunately, LoVetere had a knee injury in 1964, that reduced his effectiveness and eventually ended his career.

Sam Huff said that Modzelewski was traded before he was, so Stynchula, acquired in the Huff trade, was used to take Modzelewski's left DT position. Originally, 25 year old Stynchula was going to take Robustelli's position at right DE because Andy was retiring, but Sherman asked Robustelli to come back for one more year in 1964, and Andy said yes.

The trades hurt, but there were other things. The pass protection wasn't as good for some reason in 1964, and Tittle was sacked 6 times in the opener by Philadelphia (5 times by a defensive back), and the Giants lost to a team that they usually had to just show up to beat, 38 to 7.

Then there was age and injuries. Right offensive tackle Jack Stroud, who was 36, was injured and missed a bunch of games. Robustelli was 39 in 1964, and probably was not the force that he had been in previous years. Tittle was hurt for a good part of the season, and was not as effective as in the previous three years. Shofner was injured, and the list of problems go on and on.

Saban wrote:I have the book "Broken Patterns," and I like it too, but I had the idea that Tarkenton was sticking up for Sherman saying that he was unlucky. I think that in a later book, Fran said that the Huff trade was a bad one, or something to that effect.

One thing that was unlucky was LoVetere, who the Giants got in the trade for Rosey Grier in 1963. LoVetere, who was a few years younger than Grier, did well at RDT for the Giants, so it looked like that trade would work out. Unfortunately, LoVetere had a knee injury in 1964, that reduced his effectiveness and eventually ended his career.

Sam Huff said that Modzelewski was traded before he was, so Stynchula, acquired in the Huff trade, was used to take Modzelewski's left DT position. Originally, 25 year old Stynchula was going to take Robustelli's position at right DE because Andy was retiring, but Sherman asked Robustelli to come back for one more year in 1964, and Andy said yes.

The trades hurt, but there were other things. The pass protection wasn't as good for some reason in 1964, and Tittle was sacked 6 times in the opener by Philadelphia (5 times by a defensive back), and the Giants lost to a team that they usually had to just show up to beat, 38 to 7.

Then there was age and injuries. Right offensive tackle Jack Stroud, who was 36, was injured and missed a bunch of games. Robustelli was 39 in 1964, and probably was not the force that he had been in previous years. Tittle was hurt for a good part of the season, and was not as effective as in the previous three years. Shofner was injured, and the list of problems go on and on.

As I related above, Fran Tarkenton said the Huff trade was a bad one in "Broken Patterns" on page 16. Allie Sherman saw he had an old team, but he didn't get much in return in the trades he made.

Tarkenton said "Allie Sherman made a mistake, albeit an honest one, that overcomes most coaches from time to time. He felt that it is coaching that makes great football teams, not great personnel."

SixtiesFan wrote:

Saban wrote:I have the book "Broken Patterns," and I like it too, but I had the idea that Tarkenton was sticking up for Sherman saying that he was unlucky. I think that in a later book, Fran said that the Huff trade was a bad one, or something to that effect.

One thing that was unlucky was LoVetere, who the Giants got in the trade for Rosey Grier in 1963. LoVetere, who was a few years younger than Grier, did well at RDT for the Giants, so it looked like that trade would work out. Unfortunately, LoVetere had a knee injury in 1964, that reduced his effectiveness and eventually ended his career.

Sam Huff said that Modzelewski was traded before he was, so Stynchula, acquired in the Huff trade, was used to take Modzelewski's left DT position. Originally, 25 year old Stynchula was going to take Robustelli's position at right DE because Andy was retiring, but Sherman asked Robustelli to come back for one more year in 1964, and Andy said yes.

The trades hurt, but there were other things. The pass protection wasn't as good for some reason in 1964, and Tittle was sacked 6 times in the opener by Philadelphia (5 times by a defensive back), and the Giants lost to a team that they usually had to just show up to beat, 38 to 7.

Then there was age and injuries. Right offensive tackle Jack Stroud, who was 36, was injured and missed a bunch of games. Robustelli was 39 in 1964, and probably was not the force that he had been in previous years. Tittle was hurt for a good part of the season, and was not as effective as in the previous three years. Shofner was injured, and the list of problems go on and on.

As I related above, Fran Tarkenton said the Huff trade was a bad one in "Broken Patterns" on page 16. Allie Sherman saw he had an old team, but he didn't get much in return in the trades he made.

Tarkenton said "Allie Sherman made a mistake, albeit an honest one, that overcomes most coaches from time to time. He felt that it is coaching that makes great football teams, not great personnel."

Yep, You are right. I thought that the beginning of the book was all about Tarkenton's high school, college, and early years with the Vikings. I did not realize that there was much about the Giants until later in the book. I must have just skimmed through the early part of the book.

Tarkenton does stick up for Sherman later in the book, and I did remember that part. I did read in a later Tarkenton book where he said it was a bad trade, or something to that effect.