Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

What '50s Cleveland squad under Brown do you think was best, what Lombardi Packer squad do you think was best, and who wins between both and why?

I liked the 1948, 1950, and 1954 (after their first 3 games) Browns teams and the 1962 and 1966 Green Bay teams.

As to who would win between the 2 teams, then I would have to say the Packers, because the players were bigger and probably faster, and there was a bigger player limit (32 and 33 players for the Graham era Browns and closer to 40 players for the 1960's Pack). Also game strategy was probably a little more advanced during the 1960's as the game evolved even more as time went on. And there was more money spent on teams to make them better in the 1960's as compared to the 1950's.

Here is something that I found interesting. Elroy Hirsch, a great pass receiver who played against the Cleveland Browns in the All-America Conference and with the Rams had this to say about the Graham era Browns: "Those Browns teams of that era were so great. They had tremendous personnel and Paul Brown had them extremely well organized. They had excellent ends and Marion Motley was a terrific power runner. But it was a very simple offense. They just executed perfectly. They were a lot like the Vince Lombardi Packer teams. I honestly think they'd still be a great team today."

That was from the "Great Teams' Great Years" series. It was in an interview with Hirsch about the Los Angeles Rams. The Rams book in that series was published in 1973.

Saban wrote:I liked the 1948, 1950, and 1954 (after their first 3 games) Browns teams and the 1962 and 1966 Green Bay teams.

As to who would win between the 2 teams, then I would have to say the Packers, because the players were bigger and probably faster, and there was a bigger player limit (32 and 33 players for the Graham era Browns and closer to 40 players for the 1960's Pack). Also game strategy was probably a little more advanced during the 1960's as the game evolved even more as time went on. And there was more money spent on teams to make them better in the 1960's as compared to the 1950's.

Here is something that I found interesting. Elroy Hirsch, a great pass receiver who played against the Cleveland Browns in the All-America Conference and with the Rams had this to say about the Graham era Browns: "Those Browns teams of that era were so great. They had tremendous personnel and Paul Brown had them extremely well organized. They had excellent ends and Marion Motley was a terrific power runner. But it was a very simple offense. They just executed perfectly. They were a lot like the Vince Lombardi Packer teams. I honestly think they'd still be a great team today."

That was from the "Great Teams' Great Years" series. It was in an interview with Hirsch about the Los Angeles Rams. The Rams book in that series was published in 1973.

Ironically, it was Paul Brown that helped Vince Lombardi get his head coaching job at Green Bay. Cleveland and Green Bay were trading partners throughout the 1950's, and both teams helped each other with trades. Paul Brown got friendly with the Green Bay organization. After 1958, in which the Packers had a terrible season, a member of Green Bay's board asked Brown if he would recommend some coaches for the Packers to hire. Paul Brown recommended Blanton Collier and Vince Lombardi.

Collier was happy with his head coaching job with the University of Kentucky and turned down the Green Bay offer. Green Bay then hired Lombardi as head coach. Brown tried to help Vince Lombardi any way that he could in his new job (Brown said that he felt responsible for Vince) and offered him some players that would have trouble getting much playing time with the Browns. Brown might have even given Lombardi some coaching advice, but don't know about that. Whether he did or not, I am quite sure that Vince Lombardi would have been a successful head coach, with or without any help from Paul Brown.

Brown and Lombardi became close friends. After Brown got fired at Cleveland, he moved to the west coast. Vince Lombardi used to visit Brown in California when the Pack made their western trips to play the Rams and 49ers.

Another thing about comparing teams from the 1950's and 1960's. There was a bigger population to get players from during the 1960's, hence the players must have gotten better and better as well as bigger and faster during the 1960's. Also, scouting got better as teams spent more money and their methods of scouting improved. So, the best teams of the 1960's should have been better than the best teams of the 1950's, and the best teams of the 1970's were probably better than the best teams of the 1960's.

One thing though. No team has ever dominated pro football like the Cleveland Browns did during the Otto Graham era (1946-1955). I doubt if any team will ever play in 10 straight league championships again. In fact, it will probably be a long time before any team ever plays in 6 straight NFL championship games again.

I think the 40's Browns were stronger than the 50's Browns because Motley and Speedie were at the peak of their powers. 1948 would probably be my choice...undefeated and Graham, Motley, & Speedie were all league leaders. 1953 was probably their best NFL 50's team, but they lost in the title game to the Lions.

I don't know if they were more talented, but I think the 1962 Packers dominated their peers moreso than the 1966 Packers, at least offensively. I think the 1966 Packers weren't as effective running the ball, and the methodical power sweep had kind of run its course.

If I had to pick a winner between the 50's Browns and 60's Packers, it would be the Packers. But I think the Browns accomplishments are more impressive.

Bryan wrote:I think the 40's Browns were stronger than the 50's Browns because Motley and Speedie were at the peak of their powers. 1948 would probably be my choice...undefeated and Graham, Motley, & Speedie were all league leaders. 1953 was probably their best NFL 50's team, but they lost in the title game to the Lions.

I don't know if they were more talented, but I think the 1962 Packers dominated their peers moreso than the 1966 Packers, at least offensively. I think the 1966 Packers weren't as effective running the ball, and the methodical power sweep had kind of run its course.

If I had to pick a winner between the 50's Browns and 60's Packers, it would be the Packers. But I think the Browns accomplishments are more impressive.

Agreed. The Browns accomplishments were more impressive to me as well. Too many people discount their titles in the AAFC but that league was on par (note: not notably better or worse) with the NFL during those years. The influx of talent the NFL received from the AAFC in 1950 changed the power structure of the League.

1948 was an incredible season for the Browns but I'm not certain that was their best overall team. The stars were certainly in their prime and they won two huge games against a very good San Francisco team (along with winning three games in eight days) but the overall team may have actually improved in the 1950s. The defense for the 1950 team may be one of the best in history (I've seen it mentioned several times when people try to determine these things) and the offense was still in high gear with all the stars. The 1953 team would certainly be in the conversation if they hadn't dropped the Championship game to Detroit.

I'd have to agree that the 1962 Packers was the greatest Packers team of the 60s. The 1965-67 teams were all good but they not nearly as well rounded as that 62 team.

To be able to see these teams play against each other would be a dream come true, in my opinion. They were so incredibly good!

EDIT: Where's Jagade? I'm surprised he hasn't jumped into this thread yet!

Byron wrote:

Bryan wrote:I think the 40's Browns were stronger than the 50's Browns because Motley and Speedie were at the peak of their powers. 1948 would probably be my choice...undefeated and Graham, Motley, & Speedie were all league leaders. 1953 was probably their best NFL 50's team, but they lost in the title game to the Lions.

I don't know if they were more talented, but I think the 1962 Packers dominated their peers moreso than the 1966 Packers, at least offensively. I think the 1966 Packers weren't as effective running the ball, and the methodical power sweep had kind of run its course.

If I had to pick a winner between the 50's Browns and 60's Packers, it would be the Packers. But I think the Browns accomplishments are more impressive.

Agreed. The Browns accomplishments were more impressive to me as well. Too many people discount their titles in the AAFC but that league was on par (note: not notably better or worse) with the NFL during those years. The influx of talent the NFL received from the AAFC in 1950 changed the power structure of the League.

1948 was an incredible season for the Browns but I'm not certain that was their best overall team. The stars were certainly in their prime and they won two huge games against a very good San Francisco team (along with winning three games in eight days) but the overall team may have actually improved in the 1950s. The defense for the 1950 team may be one of the best in history (I've seen it mentioned several times when people try to determine these things) and the offense was still in high gear with all the stars. The 1953 team would certainly be in the conversation if they hadn't dropped the Championship game to Detroit.

I'd have to agree that the 1962 Packers was the greatest Packers team of the 60s. The 1965-67 teams were all good but they not nearly as well rounded as that 62 team.

To be able to see these teams play against each other would be a dream come true, in my opinion. They were so incredibly good!

EDIT: Where's Jagade? I'm surprised he hasn't jumped into this thread yet!

I have. I go by the name of Saban now. When I tried to get onto this website, I had trouble getting on as Jagade, so I started new with Saban. I like Saban because most remember him just as a coach, but Lou Saban was a great defensive linebacker for Cleveland during the AAFC years (1946-49). Unfortunately for the Browns, Lou Saban retired after the 1949 season to go into coaching.