Special questions about Special Teams
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:01 pm
Special questions about Special Teams
#1 evan
Posted 09 October 2010 - 02:48 PM
Can anyone help me with these special questions about special teams? This isn't a trivia contest, I'm just looking for answers to questions I don't know:
Was RB Lonnie Perrin the last position player to regularly kick off when he did so for the Broncos in the late 1970s?
Anyone have a comprehensive list of barefoot kickers (Rich Karlis, Mike Lansford, Tony Franklin, Paul McFadden, any more?) and can anyone tell me what befell Tennessee All-American Ricky Townsend, who was a barefoot kicker in college then tried to convert to a shoe and didn't make it?
I seem to remember Dave Jennings punting without a shoe, anyone else remember this and did anyone else try it?
Did Don Shula really push for the "Matt Blair rule" to change the way kicks could be blocked because the Vikings were so overwhelmingly good at it? And how did those Viking teams block so many kicks in the late 70s?
Which players started at QB in a Super Bowl and also hold for kicks in the same game (Earl Morrall, Joe Montana, Joe Theismann, anyone else? Norris Weese didn't start, but did he kick-hold in SB XII while he was also QB)?
Was Mike Guman's 43-yard kickoff return TD off an onsides kick in 1984 the shortest kickoff return TD ever?
Was Frank Corral the last full-time kicker and punter at the same time?
Has anyone else ever returned punts, held for kicks, and punted other than Joe Theismann (I know his punt barely counted, but it did)?
Anyone other than Theismann and Vince Evans return punts and then became starting QBs?
Who ran the most fake field goals? Was it Nolan Cromwell (7 rushes, 53 yards, 3 TDs)?
Jim Smith of the Steelers started his career with a remarkable string of punt returns without a fair catch. Anyone know how many punt returns it was and what the story behind that was? Did Noll endorse it, or was Smith just determined to run everything back?
Thanks all!
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#2 Bob Gill
Posted 09 October 2010 - 03:29 PM
I don't know about most of these, but ... I seem to remember Jason Sehorn doing something similar, and if that's right, his return might've been even shorter. But I might be misremembering it.
>Has anyone else ever returned punts, held for kicks, and punted other than Joe Theismann (I know his punt barely counted, but it did)?
Sammy Baugh did, for sure, and probably others of his era, like maybe Sid Luckman and Ace Parker. But I'm sure those numbers grew more scarce once free substitution arrived.
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#3 JWL
Posted 09 October 2010 - 03:30 PM
Randal Williams of Dallas returned the opening kickoff 37 yards for a touchdown against the Eagles on October 12, 2003.
----------------------------
Danny White punted 302 times in the 1970s. He became the Dallas starting quarterback in 1980.
Boston's Tom Yewcic punted 64 times as a rookie in 1961. It wasn't until the following year when he started a few games at quarterback.
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#4 JWL
Posted 09 October 2010 - 03:37 PM
Jason Sehorn had a 38-yard kickoff return touchdown. It occurred during the season finale vs Jacksonville in 2000. The Jaguars scored late to cut into the New York lead and then attempted an onside kick. Sehorn was credited with 2 kickoff returns that year for 31 yards. I don't remember the other play. Maybe it was on an onside kick in another game and maybe he ran backwards seven yards for some reason.
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#5 Rupert Patrick
Posted 09 October 2010 - 04:16 PM
I found a webpage which listed barefoot Kickers and Punters in the NFL:
http://billkuhn.word...arefoot-kicker/
The site says Jeff Wilkins of the Rams kicked barefoot for the first part of the 2002 season, but switched back to wearing a shoe.
I always wondered why the barefoot kickers pretty much disappeared around 1990; in the late 80's it seemed (like the soccer style kicker trend in the late 60's) like a strategy that every team would eventually move towards in the future, that the day would come when most kickers would kick barefoot. But the trend seemed to go away almost overnight.
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#6 BD Sullivan
Posted 09 October 2010 - 04:42 PM
Here's some of the answers:
*In a December 1980 article on the Vikings' prowess at blocking kicks (they had blocked 45 in the previous five years), this paragraph is noteworthy:
"Coach Bud Grant loaded his special teams years ago after he noticed four or five players would rush while the other half-dozen would stand around as if they were just earning a letter."
The article also noted that the front line would be in a four-point stance before charging ahead, essentially trying to chop block them in the trenches. That would allow players like Matt Blair and Joe Senser, who had outstanding jumping (i.e. "basketball") ability to run up and leap to try and block the kick. Blair definitely paid a price for his efforts, among them: having sustained an injured sternum, banging his elbow, having a football glance off an already-broken finger and landing on his head.
*In the 12/21/80 Raiders-Giants game at the Meadowlands, a Giants score with 22 seconds left in the game cut their deficit to 27-17. After being penalized twice for onside kick attempts, their third effort was kicked to Oakland's Derrick Jensen, who was right near the sideline. Jensen caught it at the Giant 33 and ran untouched for the final score.
*Jim Smith had 61 straight returns without a fair catch until the 10/22/79 game against the Broncos. My guess for him deciding to end the streak was that he didn't want to endure the wrath of Chuck Noll, who had undoubtedly was on the rampage during the previous week of practice. The reason for Noll's likely anger? The Bengals had pounded them, 34-10, the week before. The Steelers obviously got the message since they destroyed Denver, 42-7, in a Monday nighter.
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#7 Bob Gill
Posted 09 October 2010 - 05:02 PM
Mike Nelms, an outstanding kick returner for the Redskins from 1980-84, had a streak of at least 70 punt returns without a fair catch: he returned 32 punts in 1982 and 38 in 1983 without making one. And he made only 1 (45 returns) in 1981, and 1 in 1984 (49 returns), so his streak could easily have exceeded 100.
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#8 Rupert Patrick
Posted 09 October 2010 - 05:13 PM
evan, on 09 October 2010 - 04:48 PM, said: Did Don Shula really push for the "Matt Blair rule" to change the way kicks could be blocked because the Vikings were so overwhelmingly good at it? And how did those Viking teams block so many kicks in the late 70s?
EDIT: I found some 1971 FG miss data from Ken Pullis that showed a number of blocks I did not previously have and updated my database (and the research below) accordingly.
I don't have records on blocked Extra Points, but I do have info on blocked field goals. Here are the blocked FG's (out of missed FG) for the Vikings defense from 1969-79, with the league numbers in parenthesis, followed by the league leader in blocks:
1969 - 5 of 12 misses were blocked - (34 of 214 misses blocked in NFL, AFL not included) - Chicago and Minnesota each blocked 5 FG's
1970 - 2 of 12 (49 of 327) - Miami blocked 5 FG's
1971 - 5 of 18 (37 of 329) - Vikings led the league
1972 - 1 of 13 (36 of 318) - Raiders blocked 5 FG's
1973 - 6 of 17 (43 of 318) - Vikings led the NFL
1974 - 1 of 7 (37 of 218) - Colts blocked 4 FG's
1975 - 2 of 4 (35 of 206) - 49ers blocked 4 FG's
1976 - 4 of 15 (48 of 242) - Packers blocked 6 FG's
1977 - 2 of 10 (34 of 258) - Dolphins blocked 5 FG's
1978 - 2 of 6 (33 of 250) - Cowboys blocked 4 FG's
1979 - 2 of 9 (31 of 266) - Bills blocked 7 FG's
During the seasons in question, the NFL as a whole had 417 of 2946 misses blocked, according to my records, which is 14.2 percent. The Vikings defense blocked 32 of 123 missed field goals, or 26.0 percent. If you remove the Vikings stats from the league stats, the NFL except for the Vikings blocked 385 of 2823 misses, or 13.7 percent. The Vikings were 91 percent better at blocking FG's (26.0 divided by 13.6) better than the rest of the NFL.
You could probably argue that the 1976 Vikings were the best of all time at blocking FG's and XP's. The Vikings opponents were only successful on 10 of 25 FG's (40 percent) while the entire NFL was at 59.5 percent (400 of 672). On Extra Points, the Vikings opponents were successful on only 14 of 22 extra points (64 percent) while the NFL was at 816 of 900 on XP's (89.7 percent); I would bet six or seven of the missed extra points were blocked by the Vikings. I don't have defensive blocked punt stats for the 1976 Vikings but would be very curious to see it.
I think the Vikings were good at blocking kicks in the 70's because they brought in personnel (like Blair) who were good at it. I'm not sure who the Vikings Special Teams Coach was in the 70's, or even if there was such a thing as a Special Teams Coach back then, but somebody did a terrific job training the Vikes on blocking kicks in the 70's.
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#9 Superbowlfanatic
Posted 10 October 2010 - 06:12 AM
I was a barefoot placekicker (the ball went about 10 yards farther without a shoe) for Division III Franklin & Marshall College back in the 1980's, so I have paid extremely close attention to the existence of barefoot kickers in the NFL. I was inspired by Tony Franklin. I can tell you that the one's listed here in this thread is complete and exhaustive.
As far as full time K & P, yes the Rams Frank Corall was the last to handle both duties, on a regular, non-emergency basis.
Of course there have been many P's who've handled their teams kickoff chores throughout the years. (i.e. Saints Thomas Morestead, among many)
One P/KO specialist who did make a notable FG was the Browns Steve Cox, who made a 60 yd. FG, back in 1985, I believe. I also think he was the last player to make a placekick in the NFL using the conventional, straight-on kicking style and he also wore the square-toed shoe, which is now not allowed in the NFL.
Cox ended up his career with the Redskins. It's ironic that the first NFL team to employ a soccer style kicker, Charlie Gogolak on the Redskins, was the last to have a straight-on kicker in Cox, but by then he only handled P and KO duties. (and it wasn't Mark Moseley)
I don't remember Dave Jennings ever punting barefoot. He may have tried punting wearing only a sock at one time.
The 49'ers Miller is the last barefoot punter.
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#10 BD Sullivan
Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:37 AM
evan, on 09 October 2010 - 04:48 PM, said: I seem to remember Dave Jennings punting without a shoe, anyone else remember this and did anyone else try it?
Could you be thinking of the other New York punter of that era (1977-84), Chuck Ramsey, who did punt barefoot?
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#11 NWebster
Posted 10 October 2010 - 12:39 PM
Agree on many counts - the Vikings did have excellent personnel - both Blair and Page routinely blocked 3-5 kicks (FG & PAT) a season in the mid 70's, but even Eller blocked ~9 in his career. They weren't as proficient at blocking Punts.
Raises an interesting issue - clearly blocking PAT and FG's are similar skills where Punts are quite different - how many players were exceptional at both? Your Page / Ed Jones / Sean Rogers types were excellent at blocking placements and Albert Lewis / Ed Reed at Punts, but players who were balanced are extremely hard to find. Ted Hendricks (likely the greatest kick blocker of all-time) did both though most Punt blocks were early in his career. Dave Whitsell seemed very balanced blocking multiple Punts and FG's and PAT's. Anybody have others? I guess the criteria would be multiple blocks of BOTH FG/PAT's and Punts?
Also, as a pet project i'm trying to find multiple kick blocks in a game? Rupert, can you help. The best i've seen to date is Dave Whitsell with 2 against the Redskins in 1968 a Punt and a FG with one returned for a TD, Ernie Calloway for the Eagles did it in the early 70's and most recently Patrick Cheung the other day for the Pats against the Dolphins - any other examples?
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#12 Tod Maher
Posted 10 October 2010 - 02:25 PM
evan, on 09 October 2010 - 01:48 PM, said: Can anyone tell me what befell Tennessee All-American Ricky Townsend, who was a barefoot kicker in college then tried to convert to a shoe and didn't make it?
Townsend was drafted and cut by the Giants in 1975, then was signed by the Memphis Southmen of the WFL where he played (eight games) until the league folded.
He was re-signed by the Giants in 1976, but again didn't make the cut.
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#13 Rupert Patrick
Posted 10 October 2010 - 02:36 PM
NWebster, on 10 October 2010 - 02:39 PM, said: Also, as a pet project i'm trying to find multiple kick blocks in a game?
I can come up with games with multiple blocked FG's, but I don't keep track of which player blocked the kick; your best bet would be to take those games and either go thru the gamebooks (if they are available) or the newspaper accounts of the games. I do not have data for blocked punts or Extra Points; I am not sure what the status of the digitization of the gamebooks is coming along, but you could probably find some there if the data is set up so you can quickly search such a question.
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#14 BD Sullivan
Posted 10 October 2010 - 04:12 PM
NWebster, on 10 October 2010 - 02:39 PM, said: Also, as a pet project i'm trying to find multiple kick blocks in a game?
Bill Bergey may hold the record, blocking two field goals and an extra point off the foot of George Hunt in the 9/21/75 Eagles-Giants game. However, Bergey's legal method of blocking the kicks was controversial enough that the NFL immediately clarified the rule on what was legal. Bergey had run up to the line and pushed off the players up front to get leverage in blocking the kicks. After that weekend, the rule was tweaked to include that, along with jumping (or standing) on teammates' backs, or being lifted high enough to block a kick. Amusingly, Hunt was quoted after the game as saying, "I don't know what the problem was."
In the 9/13/81 Oilers at Browns game, Cleveland kicker Dave Jacobs had a pair of field goal attempts blocked by Elvin Bethea.
Matt Blair, Nate Allen and Page were key special teams players for the Vikings during their 1976 season in which they reached the Super Bowl. Entering that contest, the Vikings had 15 blocks for the season, and, of course, they blocked a Ray Guy punt in that game--one of the few bright spots in the contest.
One more final Matt Blair note: He actually had a contract clause that gave him a bonus if he led the team in blocked kicks. It was his blocked punt in Super Bowl IX that gave the Vikings their only score of that game.
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#15 Steviek
Posted 10 October 2010 - 04:58 PM
Tom Flynn of the Giants scored three career touchdowns, all on blocked punt recoveries in consecutive years (1986-1988). I believe he is the only one to achieve that feat.
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#16 Bryan
Posted 11 October 2010 - 02:02 PM
NWebster, on 10 October 2010 - 12:39 PM, said: Also, as a pet project i'm trying to find multiple kick blocks in a game?
Bob Rowe of the Cards blocked 3 Jim O'Brien FGs against the Colts in a Week 1 matchup in 1972.
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#17 conace21
Posted 23 October 2010 - 04:37 PM
Henry Jones also had a 37 yard kickoff return, against Arizona in 1999.
Frank Reich was in the same boat as Weese. He was the holder for Buffalo in SB XXVII and he played QB for more then half of the game.
Michael Koenen began 2006 as the Falcons' punter and kicker, but after he missed six of eight FG's, Atlanta signed Morten Andersen and Koenen went back to punting only.
Todd Sauerbrun was being fined weekly by the Panthers for being overweight. When the team found itself in need of a place-kicker, Sauerbrun offered to serve as the team's kicker and punter if they rescinded the fine. The team refused.
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#18 Superbowlfanatic
Posted 13 November 2010 - 09:42 AM
I found another barefoot placekicker. Teddy Garcia, who attended NE Louisiana, played one season each for the Patriots, Vikings, and Oilers from 1988 to 1990. I came across his 1991 Topps Football card, where he is pictured, kicking an extra point barefooted at Kansas City in 1990, wearing only the upper portion of his sock, only, on his kicking foot, with the stripes showing.
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#19 Teo
Posted 16 November 2010 - 01:00 AM
John Teltschik, the Eagles punter from 1986-1989 punted barefooted at the University of Texas, but I believe he punted with a shoe in his time in Philadelphia.
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#20 Otm Shank
Posted 27 November 2010 - 01:13 AM
(Long-time lurker, first-time poster.)
The shortest kickoff return touchdown was 0 yards by Phil McConkey for the Giants on 9/30/84 against the L.A. Rams. The Giants kicked the opening kickoff, which the receiver played as if it was a punt. McConkey fell on the live ball in the end zone which started, without question, the most bizarre game in NFL history. Ali Haki-Shiekh missed the ensuing extra point, the first of two misses on the day. In the second quarter, one set of goal posts collapsed onto the field, which caused a long, long delay to repair them. The Rams set the record for the most safeties scored in a game (3) by scoring them all in the third quarter! Two of those safeties were on blocked punts, and third punt that was not blocked was returned for a touchdown. I have searched for video of that game everywhere, as well as some accounts of the game online, without any luck.
BD Sullivan
Posted 27 November 2010 - 10:48 AM
What is the longest span for a team between punt returns for touchdowns? The Browns went over 18 years between them: Ben Davis returned one 52 yards for a score on 11/5/67 against the Steelers; fast forward to 12/22/85 and Brian Brennan brings back one 37 yards against the Jets.
#1 evan
Posted 09 October 2010 - 02:48 PM
Can anyone help me with these special questions about special teams? This isn't a trivia contest, I'm just looking for answers to questions I don't know:
Was RB Lonnie Perrin the last position player to regularly kick off when he did so for the Broncos in the late 1970s?
Anyone have a comprehensive list of barefoot kickers (Rich Karlis, Mike Lansford, Tony Franklin, Paul McFadden, any more?) and can anyone tell me what befell Tennessee All-American Ricky Townsend, who was a barefoot kicker in college then tried to convert to a shoe and didn't make it?
I seem to remember Dave Jennings punting without a shoe, anyone else remember this and did anyone else try it?
Did Don Shula really push for the "Matt Blair rule" to change the way kicks could be blocked because the Vikings were so overwhelmingly good at it? And how did those Viking teams block so many kicks in the late 70s?
Which players started at QB in a Super Bowl and also hold for kicks in the same game (Earl Morrall, Joe Montana, Joe Theismann, anyone else? Norris Weese didn't start, but did he kick-hold in SB XII while he was also QB)?
Was Mike Guman's 43-yard kickoff return TD off an onsides kick in 1984 the shortest kickoff return TD ever?
Was Frank Corral the last full-time kicker and punter at the same time?
Has anyone else ever returned punts, held for kicks, and punted other than Joe Theismann (I know his punt barely counted, but it did)?
Anyone other than Theismann and Vince Evans return punts and then became starting QBs?
Who ran the most fake field goals? Was it Nolan Cromwell (7 rushes, 53 yards, 3 TDs)?
Jim Smith of the Steelers started his career with a remarkable string of punt returns without a fair catch. Anyone know how many punt returns it was and what the story behind that was? Did Noll endorse it, or was Smith just determined to run everything back?
Thanks all!
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#2 Bob Gill
Posted 09 October 2010 - 03:29 PM
I don't know about most of these, but ... I seem to remember Jason Sehorn doing something similar, and if that's right, his return might've been even shorter. But I might be misremembering it.
>Has anyone else ever returned punts, held for kicks, and punted other than Joe Theismann (I know his punt barely counted, but it did)?
Sammy Baugh did, for sure, and probably others of his era, like maybe Sid Luckman and Ace Parker. But I'm sure those numbers grew more scarce once free substitution arrived.
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#3 JWL
Posted 09 October 2010 - 03:30 PM
Randal Williams of Dallas returned the opening kickoff 37 yards for a touchdown against the Eagles on October 12, 2003.
----------------------------
Danny White punted 302 times in the 1970s. He became the Dallas starting quarterback in 1980.
Boston's Tom Yewcic punted 64 times as a rookie in 1961. It wasn't until the following year when he started a few games at quarterback.
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#4 JWL
Posted 09 October 2010 - 03:37 PM
Jason Sehorn had a 38-yard kickoff return touchdown. It occurred during the season finale vs Jacksonville in 2000. The Jaguars scored late to cut into the New York lead and then attempted an onside kick. Sehorn was credited with 2 kickoff returns that year for 31 yards. I don't remember the other play. Maybe it was on an onside kick in another game and maybe he ran backwards seven yards for some reason.
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#5 Rupert Patrick
Posted 09 October 2010 - 04:16 PM
I found a webpage which listed barefoot Kickers and Punters in the NFL:
http://billkuhn.word...arefoot-kicker/
The site says Jeff Wilkins of the Rams kicked barefoot for the first part of the 2002 season, but switched back to wearing a shoe.
I always wondered why the barefoot kickers pretty much disappeared around 1990; in the late 80's it seemed (like the soccer style kicker trend in the late 60's) like a strategy that every team would eventually move towards in the future, that the day would come when most kickers would kick barefoot. But the trend seemed to go away almost overnight.
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#6 BD Sullivan
Posted 09 October 2010 - 04:42 PM
Here's some of the answers:
*In a December 1980 article on the Vikings' prowess at blocking kicks (they had blocked 45 in the previous five years), this paragraph is noteworthy:
"Coach Bud Grant loaded his special teams years ago after he noticed four or five players would rush while the other half-dozen would stand around as if they were just earning a letter."
The article also noted that the front line would be in a four-point stance before charging ahead, essentially trying to chop block them in the trenches. That would allow players like Matt Blair and Joe Senser, who had outstanding jumping (i.e. "basketball") ability to run up and leap to try and block the kick. Blair definitely paid a price for his efforts, among them: having sustained an injured sternum, banging his elbow, having a football glance off an already-broken finger and landing on his head.
*In the 12/21/80 Raiders-Giants game at the Meadowlands, a Giants score with 22 seconds left in the game cut their deficit to 27-17. After being penalized twice for onside kick attempts, their third effort was kicked to Oakland's Derrick Jensen, who was right near the sideline. Jensen caught it at the Giant 33 and ran untouched for the final score.
*Jim Smith had 61 straight returns without a fair catch until the 10/22/79 game against the Broncos. My guess for him deciding to end the streak was that he didn't want to endure the wrath of Chuck Noll, who had undoubtedly was on the rampage during the previous week of practice. The reason for Noll's likely anger? The Bengals had pounded them, 34-10, the week before. The Steelers obviously got the message since they destroyed Denver, 42-7, in a Monday nighter.
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#7 Bob Gill
Posted 09 October 2010 - 05:02 PM
Mike Nelms, an outstanding kick returner for the Redskins from 1980-84, had a streak of at least 70 punt returns without a fair catch: he returned 32 punts in 1982 and 38 in 1983 without making one. And he made only 1 (45 returns) in 1981, and 1 in 1984 (49 returns), so his streak could easily have exceeded 100.
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#8 Rupert Patrick
Posted 09 October 2010 - 05:13 PM
evan, on 09 October 2010 - 04:48 PM, said: Did Don Shula really push for the "Matt Blair rule" to change the way kicks could be blocked because the Vikings were so overwhelmingly good at it? And how did those Viking teams block so many kicks in the late 70s?
EDIT: I found some 1971 FG miss data from Ken Pullis that showed a number of blocks I did not previously have and updated my database (and the research below) accordingly.
I don't have records on blocked Extra Points, but I do have info on blocked field goals. Here are the blocked FG's (out of missed FG) for the Vikings defense from 1969-79, with the league numbers in parenthesis, followed by the league leader in blocks:
1969 - 5 of 12 misses were blocked - (34 of 214 misses blocked in NFL, AFL not included) - Chicago and Minnesota each blocked 5 FG's
1970 - 2 of 12 (49 of 327) - Miami blocked 5 FG's
1971 - 5 of 18 (37 of 329) - Vikings led the league
1972 - 1 of 13 (36 of 318) - Raiders blocked 5 FG's
1973 - 6 of 17 (43 of 318) - Vikings led the NFL
1974 - 1 of 7 (37 of 218) - Colts blocked 4 FG's
1975 - 2 of 4 (35 of 206) - 49ers blocked 4 FG's
1976 - 4 of 15 (48 of 242) - Packers blocked 6 FG's
1977 - 2 of 10 (34 of 258) - Dolphins blocked 5 FG's
1978 - 2 of 6 (33 of 250) - Cowboys blocked 4 FG's
1979 - 2 of 9 (31 of 266) - Bills blocked 7 FG's
During the seasons in question, the NFL as a whole had 417 of 2946 misses blocked, according to my records, which is 14.2 percent. The Vikings defense blocked 32 of 123 missed field goals, or 26.0 percent. If you remove the Vikings stats from the league stats, the NFL except for the Vikings blocked 385 of 2823 misses, or 13.7 percent. The Vikings were 91 percent better at blocking FG's (26.0 divided by 13.6) better than the rest of the NFL.
You could probably argue that the 1976 Vikings were the best of all time at blocking FG's and XP's. The Vikings opponents were only successful on 10 of 25 FG's (40 percent) while the entire NFL was at 59.5 percent (400 of 672). On Extra Points, the Vikings opponents were successful on only 14 of 22 extra points (64 percent) while the NFL was at 816 of 900 on XP's (89.7 percent); I would bet six or seven of the missed extra points were blocked by the Vikings. I don't have defensive blocked punt stats for the 1976 Vikings but would be very curious to see it.
I think the Vikings were good at blocking kicks in the 70's because they brought in personnel (like Blair) who were good at it. I'm not sure who the Vikings Special Teams Coach was in the 70's, or even if there was such a thing as a Special Teams Coach back then, but somebody did a terrific job training the Vikes on blocking kicks in the 70's.
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#9 Superbowlfanatic
Posted 10 October 2010 - 06:12 AM
I was a barefoot placekicker (the ball went about 10 yards farther without a shoe) for Division III Franklin & Marshall College back in the 1980's, so I have paid extremely close attention to the existence of barefoot kickers in the NFL. I was inspired by Tony Franklin. I can tell you that the one's listed here in this thread is complete and exhaustive.
As far as full time K & P, yes the Rams Frank Corall was the last to handle both duties, on a regular, non-emergency basis.
Of course there have been many P's who've handled their teams kickoff chores throughout the years. (i.e. Saints Thomas Morestead, among many)
One P/KO specialist who did make a notable FG was the Browns Steve Cox, who made a 60 yd. FG, back in 1985, I believe. I also think he was the last player to make a placekick in the NFL using the conventional, straight-on kicking style and he also wore the square-toed shoe, which is now not allowed in the NFL.
Cox ended up his career with the Redskins. It's ironic that the first NFL team to employ a soccer style kicker, Charlie Gogolak on the Redskins, was the last to have a straight-on kicker in Cox, but by then he only handled P and KO duties. (and it wasn't Mark Moseley)
I don't remember Dave Jennings ever punting barefoot. He may have tried punting wearing only a sock at one time.
The 49'ers Miller is the last barefoot punter.
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#10 BD Sullivan
Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:37 AM
evan, on 09 October 2010 - 04:48 PM, said: I seem to remember Dave Jennings punting without a shoe, anyone else remember this and did anyone else try it?
Could you be thinking of the other New York punter of that era (1977-84), Chuck Ramsey, who did punt barefoot?
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#11 NWebster
Posted 10 October 2010 - 12:39 PM
Agree on many counts - the Vikings did have excellent personnel - both Blair and Page routinely blocked 3-5 kicks (FG & PAT) a season in the mid 70's, but even Eller blocked ~9 in his career. They weren't as proficient at blocking Punts.
Raises an interesting issue - clearly blocking PAT and FG's are similar skills where Punts are quite different - how many players were exceptional at both? Your Page / Ed Jones / Sean Rogers types were excellent at blocking placements and Albert Lewis / Ed Reed at Punts, but players who were balanced are extremely hard to find. Ted Hendricks (likely the greatest kick blocker of all-time) did both though most Punt blocks were early in his career. Dave Whitsell seemed very balanced blocking multiple Punts and FG's and PAT's. Anybody have others? I guess the criteria would be multiple blocks of BOTH FG/PAT's and Punts?
Also, as a pet project i'm trying to find multiple kick blocks in a game? Rupert, can you help. The best i've seen to date is Dave Whitsell with 2 against the Redskins in 1968 a Punt and a FG with one returned for a TD, Ernie Calloway for the Eagles did it in the early 70's and most recently Patrick Cheung the other day for the Pats against the Dolphins - any other examples?
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#12 Tod Maher
Posted 10 October 2010 - 02:25 PM
evan, on 09 October 2010 - 01:48 PM, said: Can anyone tell me what befell Tennessee All-American Ricky Townsend, who was a barefoot kicker in college then tried to convert to a shoe and didn't make it?
Townsend was drafted and cut by the Giants in 1975, then was signed by the Memphis Southmen of the WFL where he played (eight games) until the league folded.
He was re-signed by the Giants in 1976, but again didn't make the cut.
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#13 Rupert Patrick
Posted 10 October 2010 - 02:36 PM
NWebster, on 10 October 2010 - 02:39 PM, said: Also, as a pet project i'm trying to find multiple kick blocks in a game?
I can come up with games with multiple blocked FG's, but I don't keep track of which player blocked the kick; your best bet would be to take those games and either go thru the gamebooks (if they are available) or the newspaper accounts of the games. I do not have data for blocked punts or Extra Points; I am not sure what the status of the digitization of the gamebooks is coming along, but you could probably find some there if the data is set up so you can quickly search such a question.
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#14 BD Sullivan
Posted 10 October 2010 - 04:12 PM
NWebster, on 10 October 2010 - 02:39 PM, said: Also, as a pet project i'm trying to find multiple kick blocks in a game?
Bill Bergey may hold the record, blocking two field goals and an extra point off the foot of George Hunt in the 9/21/75 Eagles-Giants game. However, Bergey's legal method of blocking the kicks was controversial enough that the NFL immediately clarified the rule on what was legal. Bergey had run up to the line and pushed off the players up front to get leverage in blocking the kicks. After that weekend, the rule was tweaked to include that, along with jumping (or standing) on teammates' backs, or being lifted high enough to block a kick. Amusingly, Hunt was quoted after the game as saying, "I don't know what the problem was."
In the 9/13/81 Oilers at Browns game, Cleveland kicker Dave Jacobs had a pair of field goal attempts blocked by Elvin Bethea.
Matt Blair, Nate Allen and Page were key special teams players for the Vikings during their 1976 season in which they reached the Super Bowl. Entering that contest, the Vikings had 15 blocks for the season, and, of course, they blocked a Ray Guy punt in that game--one of the few bright spots in the contest.
One more final Matt Blair note: He actually had a contract clause that gave him a bonus if he led the team in blocked kicks. It was his blocked punt in Super Bowl IX that gave the Vikings their only score of that game.
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#15 Steviek
Posted 10 October 2010 - 04:58 PM
Tom Flynn of the Giants scored three career touchdowns, all on blocked punt recoveries in consecutive years (1986-1988). I believe he is the only one to achieve that feat.
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#16 Bryan
Posted 11 October 2010 - 02:02 PM
NWebster, on 10 October 2010 - 12:39 PM, said: Also, as a pet project i'm trying to find multiple kick blocks in a game?
Bob Rowe of the Cards blocked 3 Jim O'Brien FGs against the Colts in a Week 1 matchup in 1972.
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#17 conace21
Posted 23 October 2010 - 04:37 PM
Henry Jones also had a 37 yard kickoff return, against Arizona in 1999.
Frank Reich was in the same boat as Weese. He was the holder for Buffalo in SB XXVII and he played QB for more then half of the game.
Michael Koenen began 2006 as the Falcons' punter and kicker, but after he missed six of eight FG's, Atlanta signed Morten Andersen and Koenen went back to punting only.
Todd Sauerbrun was being fined weekly by the Panthers for being overweight. When the team found itself in need of a place-kicker, Sauerbrun offered to serve as the team's kicker and punter if they rescinded the fine. The team refused.
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#18 Superbowlfanatic
Posted 13 November 2010 - 09:42 AM
I found another barefoot placekicker. Teddy Garcia, who attended NE Louisiana, played one season each for the Patriots, Vikings, and Oilers from 1988 to 1990. I came across his 1991 Topps Football card, where he is pictured, kicking an extra point barefooted at Kansas City in 1990, wearing only the upper portion of his sock, only, on his kicking foot, with the stripes showing.
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#19 Teo
Posted 16 November 2010 - 01:00 AM
John Teltschik, the Eagles punter from 1986-1989 punted barefooted at the University of Texas, but I believe he punted with a shoe in his time in Philadelphia.
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#20 Otm Shank
Posted 27 November 2010 - 01:13 AM
(Long-time lurker, first-time poster.)
The shortest kickoff return touchdown was 0 yards by Phil McConkey for the Giants on 9/30/84 against the L.A. Rams. The Giants kicked the opening kickoff, which the receiver played as if it was a punt. McConkey fell on the live ball in the end zone which started, without question, the most bizarre game in NFL history. Ali Haki-Shiekh missed the ensuing extra point, the first of two misses on the day. In the second quarter, one set of goal posts collapsed onto the field, which caused a long, long delay to repair them. The Rams set the record for the most safeties scored in a game (3) by scoring them all in the third quarter! Two of those safeties were on blocked punts, and third punt that was not blocked was returned for a touchdown. I have searched for video of that game everywhere, as well as some accounts of the game online, without any luck.
BD Sullivan
Posted 27 November 2010 - 10:48 AM
What is the longest span for a team between punt returns for touchdowns? The Browns went over 18 years between them: Ben Davis returned one 52 yards for a score on 11/5/67 against the Steelers; fast forward to 12/22/85 and Brian Brennan brings back one 37 yards against the Jets.