Houston Texans discussion topics Started by 26554

[oldecapecod11]

Houston Texans discussion topics Started by 26554
Started by 26554, Jun 29 2011 02:39 PM

Archive

#1 26554
1,163 posts
Posted 29 June 2011 - 02:39 PM
Thought I'd get this one out of the way...
1. Were Tony Boselli's injury issues the biggest blow to the franchise's early hopes (and David Carr's NFL career)?
2. Is the Texans' 24-6 win over the Steelers on 12/8/02 the weirdest game in NFL history?
3. Is Andre Johnson the best wide receiver in the NFL? (I'd say yes) Does he already have enough to warrant HOF induction?
4. What are your thoughts on Gary Kubiak and Matt Schaub? Has Kubiak been given too many chances to get the Texans into the playoffs?

#2 97Den98
Forum Visitors
Posted 29 June 2011 - 04:27 PM
'26554', on 29 Jun 2011 - 2:39 PM, said:
Thought I'd get this one out of the way...
1. Were Tony Boselli's injury issues the biggest blow to the franchise's early hopes (and David Carr's NFL career)?
2. Is the Texans' 24-6 win over the Steelers on 12/8/02 the weirdest game in NFL history?
3. Is Andre Johnson the best wide receiver in the NFL? (I'd say yes) Does he already have enough to warrant HOF induction?
4. What are your thoughts on Gary Kubiak and Matt Schaub? Has Kubiak been given too many chances to get the Texans into the playoffs?

1. It could be, but they shouldn't have drafted Carr in the first place. They should have taken Julius Peppers. My philosophy is that, when you have an expansion team (or a team that is really terrible like the 07 Fins), you build in the trenches and on defense first, then you get the star QB and RB.
2. One of them.
3. Maybe not the absolute best, but he is in the top three with Megatron and Larry Fitzgerald.
4. If Kubiak doesn't deliver this year, he is gone, period. As for Schaub, he does well with that team. All they need is the defense. We will see if Wade Phillips can turn it around with the 3-4 alignment.

#3 james
PFRA Member
Posted 29 June 2011 - 05:03 PM

With my wife Christy being a huge Texans fan, we watch them every weekend during the season, unless the Giants are on, then I go in the other room. Anyway, I've watched Andre Johnson his whole career so far, and I know I'm going to get slammed for this, but in my opinion Johnson's better than Rice was at the same time in his career. I do think Andre Johnson is a Hall of Famer. He's a beast.

Schaub is a solid QB and the Texans picking him up from the Falcons was a great move, in my opinion.

#4 Rupert Patrick
PFRA Member
Posted 29 June 2011 - 05:09 PM

'26554', on 29 Jun 2011 - 2:39 PM, said:
Thought I'd get this one out of the way...
2. Is the Texans' 24-6 win over the Steelers on 12/8/02 the weirdest game in NFL history?

It ranks right up there with the 1986 Week 16 game between the Steelers and Chiefs when KC needed a win to get into the playoffs, and beat the Steelers 24-19 with their three TD's coming from a Steeler fumble recovered in the end zone, a Kickoff return for a TD and a blocked FG returned for a TD. The Chiefs had 171 net yards of offense against 515 for Pittsburgh. By comparison, the Texans garnered 47 net yards on offense compared to 422 for Pittsburgh.

Another candidate would be the 1984 Week 5 Rams Giants game which featured three Rams safeties of the Giants in the third quarter, two on punts which were blocked out of the end zone and the other a sack of Phil Simms in the end zone. The game started with a kickoff that the Rams did not field and Phil McConkey fell on it in the end zone for a TD. The Giants missed both XP attempts in a 33-12 Rams win. And at one point the game was held up for about ten minutes when one of the goalposts fell over and needed to be repaired.

I would rate the 1984 Giants Rams game as the most bizarre game since at least the merger, but the 2002 Houston Pittsburgh game would be number two and the 1986 Pittsburgh KC game would be third.

#5 Reaser
PFRA Member
Posted 29 June 2011 - 07:18 PM
'Rupert Patrick', on 29 Jun 2011 - 5:09 PM, said:
It ranks right up there with the 1986 Week 16 game between the Steelers and Chiefs when KC needed a win to get into the playoffs, and beat the Steelers 24-19 with their three TD's coming from a Steeler fumble recovered in the end zone, a Kickoff return for a TD and a blocked FG returned for a TD. The Chiefs had 171 net yards of offense against 515 for Pittsburgh. By comparison, the Texans garnered 47 net yards on offense compared to 422 for Pittsburgh.

Another candidate would be the 1984 Week 5 Rams Giants game which featured three Rams safeties of the Giants in the third quarter, two on punts which were blocked out of the end zone and the other a sack of Phil Simms in the end zone. The game started with a kickoff that the Rams did not field and Phil McConkey fell on it in the end zone for a TD. The Giants missed both XP attempts in a 33-12 Rams win. And at one point the game was held up for about ten minutes when one of the goalposts fell over and needed to be repaired.

I would rate the 1984 Giants Rams game as the most bizarre game since at least the merger, but the 2002 Houston Pittsburgh game would be number two and the 1986 Pittsburgh KC game would be third.

I'de put Bears-Cardinals from 2006 on that list also...

#6 NWebster
Forum Visitors
Posted 29 June 2011 - 08:48 PM
'Rupert Patrick', on 29 Jun 2011 - 5:09 PM, said:
It ranks right up there with the 1986 Week 16 game between the Steelers and Chiefs when KC needed a win to get into the playoffs, and beat the Steelers 24-19 with their three TD's coming from a Steeler fumble recovered in the end zone, a Kickoff return for a TD and a blocked FG returned for a TD. The Chiefs had 171 net yards of offense against 515 for Pittsburgh. By comparison, the Texans garnered 47 net yards on offense compared to 422 for Pittsburgh.

Another candidate would be the 1984 Week 5 Rams Giants game which featured three Rams safeties of the Giants in the third quarter, two on punts which were blocked out of the end zone and the other a sack of Phil Simms in the end zone. The game started with a kickoff that the Rams did not field and Phil McConkey fell on it in the end zone for a TD. The Giants missed both XP attempts in a 33-12 Rams win. And at one point the game was held up for about ten minutes when one of the goalposts fell over and needed to be repaired.

I would rate the 1984 Giants Rams game as the most bizarre game since at least the merger, but the 2002 Houston Pittsburgh game would be number two and the 1986 Pittsburgh KC game would be third.

It pains me to think how many times the steelers - over the course of my lifetime - have lost bizzare games to to unconventionalscoring and turnovers despite massively outgaining their opponents. Cleveland game two years ago can be added to the list, hard to win while turning Josh Cribbs into an all-pro w two return TD's.

#7 Rupert Patrick
PFRA Member
Posted 29 June 2011 - 09:49 PM
'NWebster', on 29 Jun 2011 - 8:48 PM, said:
It pains me to think how many times the steelers - over the course of my lifetime - have lost bizzare games to to unconventionalscoring and turnovers despite massively outgaining their opponents. Cleveland game two years ago can be added to the list, hard to win while turning Josh Cribbs into an all-pro w two return TD's.

Another odd Steeler game was the 2001 AFC Championship against New England, when New England won on a blocked FG return and a punt return, despite losing Brady late in the second quarter and bringing in Bledsoe, who had been on the sidelines the past four months. New England won 24-17 and the Steelers dismissed their Special Teams Coach.

#8 Shipley
PFRA Member
Posted 29 June 2011 - 10:11 PM
'26554', on 29 Jun 2011 - 2:39 PM, said:
Thought I'd get this one out of the way...

1. Were Tony Boselli's injury issues the biggest blow to the franchise's early hopes (and David Carr's NFL career)?

2. Is the Texans' 24-6 win over the Steelers on 12/8/02 the weirdest game in NFL history?

3. Is Andre Johnson the best wide receiver in the NFL? (I'd say yes) Does he already have enough to warrant HOF induction?

4. What are your thoughts on Gary Kubiak and Matt Schaub? Has Kubiak been given too many chances to get the Texans into the playoffs?
Am I alone in saying that the AFC South is the single most boring, soleless conference in the NFL. Think of it -- bad teams uniforms and virtually no heritage. Without Peyton Manning, this division has virtually no redeeming value (although now that I think about it, the same could be said of the NFC West, and they don't even have someone on par with Peyton!).

So in the spirit of sportstalk radio, which division is worse, the AFC South or the NFC West? And to give it a PFRA perspective, which were the best and worst divisions in NFL/AFL history? And should this become its own thread? Discuss.

#9 Reaser
PFRA Member
Posted 29 June 2011 - 10:37 PM
'Shipley', on 29 Jun 2011 - 10:11 PM, said:
Am I alone in saying that the AFC South is the single most boring, soleless conference in the NFL. Think of it -- bad teams uniforms and virtually no heritage. Without Peyton Manning, this division has virtually no redeeming value (although now that I think about it, the same could be said of the NFC West, and they don't even have someone on par with Peyton!).

So in the spirit of sportstalk radio, which division is worse, the AFC South or the NFC West? And to give it a PFRA perspective, which were the best and worst divisions in NFL/AFL history? And should this become its own thread? Discuss.

NFC West has the heritage, the 49ers 5 Super Bowls, the Cardinals being one of two franchises to still be around from 1920, two NFL championships and were in the Super Bowl just 3 seasons ago, and the Rams were in two Super Bowls in the last 12 years and have won a championship in three different cities, and the Seahawks played in the (recognized) worst officiated Super Bowl ever just 6 seasons ago. In the previous six seasons the NFC West has sent more teams to the Super Bowl (2) than the NFC East (1) or NFC South (1,) and as many as the NFC North (2.)

The AFC South is a competitive and entertaining division, the Jags and Texans are just "newer" franchises, and the Titans not being the Oilers makes that franchise seem like it has less of a history than it really does (to some people,) then the Colts obviously have been one of the best teams in the NFL for roughly a decade. The division has a 2,000 yard rusher, arguably the best WR in the NFL, etc...Not boring to me personally.

and not alot of QB's are on par with Peyton Manning so I don't think you can hold that against the NFC West.

As for worst division ever, depends on the question, single season or over a divisions entire history, or an era or a 5 year stretch, etc...would need clarification.

With not knowing what I'm answering, I'll put out the three years of the AAFC's Eastern Division;

Division representative went 0-3 in the AAFC championship game.
In 1946, 3 of the 4 teams had 3 wins on the season.
In 1948 0 of the 4 teams had a winning record.
In 1949 when the AAFC was a 7-team league, it was two former Western division teams who finished 1st and 2nd in the standings, won the semi-final games and played for the championship.

I believe it's the one of three divisions, by name, in "major" pro football history that never won a league championship (Capitol and Century, though simple math says when there's 4 divisions for a 3 year span that not all 4 divisions can have a team win a league championship in that period. Not to mention both those divisions had a team that had a recent league championship pre/post '67-69)

#10 BD Sullivan
Forum Visitors
Posted 29 June 2011 - 11:06 PM
'Rupert Patrick', on 29 Jun 2011 - 9:49 PM, said:
Another odd Steeler game was the 2001 AFC Championship against New England, when New England won on a blocked FG return and a punt return, despite losing Brady late in the second quarter and bringing in Bledsoe, who had been on the sidelines the past four months. New England won 24-17 and the Steelers dismissed their Special Teams Coach.

One iconic Steeler victory should be among the weirdest ever: the Immaculate Reception. For the first 58 1/2 minutes, the only points are a pair of Roy Gerela field goals. Then Oakland scores what seems likely to be the game-winning touchdown on a 30-yard RUN by Ken Stabler with 1:13 left. On fourth down, Bradshaw somehow escapes a furious Raider rush and throws a pass that bounces off Jack Tatum and is caught before it hits the ground by Franco Harris, who then runs roughly 42 yards for the touchdown. You see stuff like this all the time.

#11 26554
Forum Visitors
Posted 29 June 2011 - 11:25 PM
'NWebster', on 29 Jun 2011 - 8:48 PM, said:
It pains me to think how many times the steelers - over the course of my lifetime - have lost bizzare games to to unconventionalscoring and turnovers despite massively outgaining their opponents. Cleveland game two years ago can be added to the list, hard to win while turning Josh Cribbs into an all-pro w two return TD's.

They've also had a number of losses to expansion teams/teams with very poor records. Off the top of my head, besides the '02 loss to the Texans (and the others mentioned), there was -

*The loss to the Jaguars in 1995
*The loss to the Browns in 1999
*The loss to the Raiders in 2006
*The loss to the Jets in 2007
*The loss to the Raiders in 2009

#12 26554
Forum Visitors
Posted 29 June 2011 - 11:40 PM
'james', on 29 Jun 2011 - 5:03 PM, said:
With my wife Christy being a huge Texans fan, we watch them every weekend during the season, unless the Giants are on, then I go in the other room. Anyway, I've watched Andre Johnson his whole career so far, and I know I'm going to get slammed for this, but in my opinion Johnson's better than Rice was at the same time in his career. I do think Andre Johnson is a Hall of Famer. He's a beast.

Schaub is a solid QB and the Texans picking him up from the Falcons was a great move, in my opinion.

I'd put Schaub in the 10-12 range among current qbs. He's good, but he has had some 'clutch' issues that he needs to work through. He and Tony Romo are somewhat similar, but Romo has had some better defensive talent, so I think I'd have Schaub a little ahead of him.

I'd give Rice the edge but, really, I don't think your opinion on Johnson vs. Rice is that farfetched. Again, Schaub is good, but he's not Montana or Young.

I'm on record as saying that I think Sterling Sharpe has enough for the HOF, so I'd have to say that Johnson has just enough at this point, too.

#13 Shipley
PFRA Member
Posted 30 June 2011 - 01:47 AM
'Reaser', on 29 Jun 2011 - 10:37 PM, said:
NFC West has the heritage, the 49ers 5 Super Bowls, the Cardinals being one of two franchises to still be around from 1920 and were in the Super Bowl just 3 seasons ago, and the Rams were in two Super Bowls in the last 12 years and have won a championship in three different cities, and the Seahawks played in the (recognized) worst officiated Super Bowl ever just 6 seasons ago. In the previous six seasons the NFC West has sent more teams to the Super Bowl than the NFC East or NFC South and as many as the NFC North.

The AFC South is a competitive division, the Jags and Texans are just newer franchises, and the Titans not being the Oilers makes that franchise seem like it has less of a history than it really does (to some people,) then the Colts obviously have been one of the best teams in the NFL for roughly a decade. The division has a 2,000 yard rusher, arguably the best WR in the NFL, etc...

and not alot of QB's are on par with Peyton...
All points well taken, but if I know if I were given the choice of a game to watch in the here and now NFL, there are no teams in either of those divisions I'd choose to watch with the possible exception of the Colts (but only with Peyton). In terms of heritage, I'd still say both of those divisions rank near the bottom, although the NFC South (aka NASCAR) division would also rank pretty low. Even after all of the realignments through the year, the East and Central in the NFC and the East, North and West in the AFC have maintained some semblance of tradition. The same cannot be said of the AFC South and the NFC West and South.

#14 Reaser
PFRA Member
Posted 30 June 2011 - 04:21 AM
'Shipley', on 30 Jun 2011 - 01:47 AM, said:
In terms of heritage, I'd still say both of those divisions rank near the bottom, although the NFC South (aka NASCAR) division would also rank pretty low. Even after all of the realignments through the year, the East and Central in the NFC and the East, North and West in the AFC have maintained some semblance of tradition. The same cannot be said of the AFC South and the NFC West and South.

Well obviously the South divisions don't have tradition (as a division) because they were only created in 2002 plus of course majority of the most recent expansion teams have been in the South (even non-recent if you go back to mid/late 60's, the 10 expansion teams since then, 6 are teams currently in the South divisions, and that's not counting the Titans relocation or that by geography Miami "should be" in the South, which would make it 7 of the last 10 expansion teams.)

As for the NFC West, I don't think we have the same definition of heritage.

Cardinals have been in the league since 1920, they were in the first and original NFL Western Division, from 1933-1949 then of course came to the NFC West in 2002. 26 seasons in the NFL/NFC West combined.

When the 49ers joined the NFL from the AAFC they were in the National/Western Conference then ultimately NFC West from 1950-current. 61 seasons in the NFL/NFC West.

Rams joined the NFL and the Western Division in 1937, and stayed in the Western Divisions/Conferences from 1937-current (minus the year they "took off.") 73 seasons in the NFL/NFC West.

Seahawks joined the NFL and NFC West in 1976 then went to the AFC. Came back to the NFC West in 2002. 10 seasons in the NFC West.

Combined 170 seasons in what amounts to the NFC West.

Rams-49ers have played 122 times in the regular season.
Cardinals-Rams have played 64 times.
Cardinals-49ers have played 39 times.
Rams-Seahawks have played 25 times.
Cardinals-Seahawks have played 24 times.
49ers-Seahawks have played 24 times.
Combined 298 regular season games between the 4 teams.

Now let's look at the AFC North's tradition (continuation of AFC Central);

Steelers joined the NFL in 1933, joined the AFC Central in 1970. (were in the same division/conference as the Browns from 1950-1969 while both were in the NFL) 41 seasons in the AFC Central/North.

Browns joined the NFL from the AAFC in 1950. Along with Pittsburgh joined the AFC Central in 1970. From 1996-1998 they were out of the NFL. 38 seasons in the AFC Central/North.

Bengals joined the AFL in 1968 and the AFC Central in 1970. 41 seasons in the AFC Central/North.

Ravens "joined" the NFL and AFC Central in 1996. 15 seasons in the AFC Central/North.

135 combined seasons in what amounts to the AFC North.

Browns-Steelers have played 116 times.
Steelers-Bengals have played 81 times.
Browns-Bengals have played 75 times.
Steelers-Ravens have played 30 times.
Bengals-Ravens have played 30 times.
Browns-Ravens have played 24 times.
Combined 356 regular season games between the 4 teams.

Now H2H:
Seasons in the division: NFC West 170 to AFC North 135
Reg. Season games: AFC North 356 to NFC West 298
Teams that have played in a Super Bowl: NFC West 4 to AFC North 3
Teams that have won a Super Bowl: Tied at 2
NFL/Super Bowl Championships from the divisions (only counting 4 teams currently in the divisions and championships they won while in that division): NFL/NFC West 9 to AFC Central/North 7

Seems pretty even on tradition/history, I'm not saying the NFC West has the tradition of a division like the NFC North, but the Rams-49ers have been playing eachother for a long time, and the Cardinals are the oldest team in the NFL, if that isn't heritage/tradition then I don't know what is...

Quote
I know if I were given the choice of a game to watch in the here and now NFL, there are no teams in either of those divisions I'd choose to watch with the possible exception of the Colts (but only with Peyton).

Just for fun, for recent divisional history, let's say...the past 10 seasons, here's the amount of teams per division that have gone to a Super Bowl;

NFC South: 3; Buccaneers, Panthers, Saints
NFC West: 3; Rams, Seahawks, Cardinals
NFC North: 2; Bears, Packers
NFC East: 2; Eagles, Giants
AFC North: 1; Steelers
AFC South: 1; Colts
AFC East: 1; Patriots
AFC West: 1; Raiders

as for the "if I could only pick one game and 2 teams to watch for this upcoming season;"

That's interesting, here's my personal choices;

Steelers-Ravens because it's the game that's always closest to what I view as "real"/true football...

Bears-Packers because I love the tradition of the game and the rivalry...

Colts-Texans because I'de get to watch the best QB in the NFL, the best WR in the NFL, the 2010 rushing champion, a solid QB in Schaub, Mario Williams in his new role, DeMeco Ryans who I loved watching at MLB now as a 3-4 ILB for the first time in his life, Brian Cushing who's a good young LB'er also who I'll assume will move from OLB to ILB (Houston could be putting together a special LB'er group if those 3 succeed in the 3-4,) would get Dwight Freeney's spin move, Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne (giving me two top 5 WR's in one game)...etc

#15 Rupert Patrick
PFRA Member
Posted 30 June 2011 - 06:59 AM
'Reaser', on 30 Jun 2011 - 04:21 AM, said:
as for the "if I could only pick one game and 2 teams to watch for this upcoming season;"

That's interesting, here's my personal choices;

Steelers-Ravens because it's the game that's always closest to what I view as "real"/true football...

Bears-Packers because I love the tradition of the game and the rivalry...

Colts-Texans because I'de get to watch the best QB in the NFL, the best WR in the NFL, the 2010 rushing champion, a solid QB in Schaub, Mario Williams in his new role, DeMeco Ryans who I loved watching at MLB now as a 3-4 ILB for the first time in his life, Brian Cushing who's a good young LB'er also who I'll assume will move from OLB to ILB (Houston could be putting together a special LB'er group if those 3 succeed in the 3-4,) would get Dwight Freeney's spin move, Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne (giving me two top 5 WR's in one game)...etc

New England vs. Indy has been one of the greatest rivalries in NFL history, arguably the greatest, when you consider the magnitude of the games that have been played. I think Lions-Browns in the 50's, Raiders-Chiefs in the late 60's, Steelers-Raiders in the 70's and Cowboys-49ers in the 90's are the only ones I can think of that compare. It's almost a shame Indy moved to the AFC South because if they hadn't we would be treated to two or three games a year between these teams.

Steelers vs. Ravens is old fashioned smash-mouth football. It is about the closest we will ever see to the Steelers-Raiders games of the 70's where the two teams absolutely hate each others guts and you were assured of seeing a lot of hard hits and sometimes a cheap shot or two. The kinds of tactics the two teams performed on each other back then, if you tried that these days in a game, each team would be fined a lot of money.

#16 james
PFRA Member
Posted 30 June 2011 - 11:33 AM
'26554', on 29 Jun 2011 - 11:40 PM, said:
I'd put Schaub in the 10-12 range among current qbs. He's good, but he has had some 'clutch' issues that he needs to work through. He and Tony Romo are somewhat similar, but Romo has had some better defensive talent, so I think I'd have Schaub a little ahead of him.

I'd give Rice the edge but, really, I don't think your opinion on Johnson vs. Rice is that farfetched. Again, Schaub is good, but he's not Montana or Young.

I'm on record as saying that I think Sterling Sharpe has enough for the HOF, so I'd have to say that Johnson has just enough at this point, too.


I agree with Schaub. He's a solid QB, but he does at times have some late game issues.

My opinion that Johnson is better than Rice at the same point in Rice's career, maybe it is bias as I've seen Johnson just about every week during the season on T.V. I think Andre Johnson is the best WR I have ever seen! To me Johnson and Hutson would be my top 2 Wr's.