Integration of NFL and AFL Rosters

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Integration of NFL and AFL Rosters
Started by Shipley, Oct 01 2014 10:40 AM

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14 replies to this topic

#1 Shipley
PFRA Member
Posted 01 October 2014 - 10:40 AM
This thread is a continuation of the lively tangential discussion that began in the topic about what constitutes the beginning of the modern era in pro football, and whether integration of rosters should be part of that discussion. Since it led to some interesting dialogue, I thought it might be worthwhile to start a thread solely focused on this topic. Just to get the ball rolling, I offer some random thoughts that occurred to me during the course of this discussion.

First, I seem to recall Bob Carroll wrote an article in Coffin Corner about an exhibition game between an all-black team and an all-start team with college and NFL stars led by Chris Cagle. Anyone else remember that and know how we might track it down?

Second, when I mentioned most of the NFL teams that won championships or competed for them in the 1950s -- the Browns, Rams, Giants, Colts, 49ers and Bears -- had several black players on their rosters (or as one person perhaps correctly clarified, the most GOOD black players on their roster). The one notable exception to this is the Lions. Interestingly, although they had three black players on their roster in the late 40s (Wally Triplett, Mel Groomes and Bob Mann), as far as I can tell their roster was all white the entire time Buddy Parker was their coach, including the 1952 and 1953 championship teams. It wasn't until their 1957 championship that their roster included another black player (John Henry Johnson), and by then Parker was no longer coach. Does that say anything about him?

Third, there is of course the sorry chapter about George Preston Marshall's refusal to integrate the Redskins' roster as late as the early sixties even though their teams were consistently awful during those years. It was only after the government threatened to disallow them from playing at the new stadium on federal land unless they opened their roster to black players that the situation changed.

Finally, regarding comments about how there were no black players in major college programs in the 30s and 40s, which made it more difficult for them to get the attention of NFL teams, there is the interesting case of standout Syracuse quarterback from the 1930s Wilmeth Sidat-Singh, who was black but was pawned off as "Hindu" because of the Indian-sounding name he took from his stepfather. They got away with if for most of the season until Maryland threatened to cancel their game unless he didn't play. He's since been posthumously honored by both Syracuse and Maryland, and is worth a Google search to see interesting articles about him.

Okay, I'll shut up and listen now!

#2 rhickok1109
PFRA Member
Posted 01 October 2014 - 12:09 PM
As a direct answer to your direct question, the Brown Bombers beat the Chris Cagle team 28-6. The game is mentioned in a Coffin Corner article by John Carroll, not Bob.

As for Buddy Parker, he did trade for Tank Younger and John Henry Johnson when he coached the Steelers. He also had two black players for short periods of time in Detroit, both defensive ends: Harold "Bulldog" Turner, for three games in 1954, and Walter Jenkins, for two games in 1955. Parker also wanted to trade for a black fullback, Emerson Cole, in 1951, but couldn't work out a suitable deal with Paul Brown. It was also reported that he tried to acquire Younger for the Lions in 1954.

#3 rhickok1109
PFRA Member
Posted 01 October 2014 - 12:25 PM
There's much more about the Lions and racism here.

#4 Shipley
PFRA Member
Posted 01 October 2014 - 12:43 PM
Many thanks for posting that article...amazing reading. Parker was a deeply flawed but fascinating figure, and clearly a brilliant football mind.

#5 BD Sullivan
Forum Visitors
Posted 01 October 2014 - 01:32 PM
FWIW, the Detroit Tigers were one of the last MLB teams to integrate their team.

#6 Bryan
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Posted 01 October 2014 - 02:57 PM
One would think that if Night Train Lane can walk into a training camp and immediately set the NFL single-season INT record and Tom Wilson can step off an army base and set the NFL single-game rushing record, then NFL teams would be climbing over themselves to find even more black players. I'm sure its a complex subject, but I am surprised that the integration of the NFL took as long as it did.

On another note, I remember someone (might have been Buck Buchanan) said that when Grambling played Southern in the mid-1960's, it was like an NFL all-star game because there were so many future NFL stars on the field. With so many great players coming out of the black colleges in the 1960's, I always had this idea in my mind that a 1964 Grambling team would crush a 1964 Alabama team. But then I find out that Grambling played North Dakota State in a 1965 bowl game, they were completely stymied on offense and lost 20-7. Florida A&M plays Tampa later on in the decade, and they lose 34-28 (Paul "Mr. Wonderful" Orndorff was Tampa's halfback). So if Grambling and Florida A&M can't beat smaller programs like NDS and Tampa, could they really have competed with the top college football programs of the 1960's?

#7 ronfitch
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Posted 01 October 2014 - 03:50 PM
Bryan, on 01 Oct 2014 - 2:57 PM, said:
One would think that if Night Train Lane can walk into a training camp and immediately set the NFL single-season INT record and Tom Wilson can step off an army base and set the NFL single-game rushing record, then NFL teams would be climbing over themselves to find even more black players. I'm sure its a complex subject, but I am surprised that the integration of the NFL took as long as it did.

On another note, I remember someone (might have been Buck Buchanan) said that when Grambling played Southern in the mid-1960's, it was like an NFL all-star game because there were so many future NFL stars on the field. With so many great players coming out of the black colleges in the 1960's, I always had this idea in my mind that a 1964 Grambling team would crush a 1964 Alabama team. But then I find out that Grambling played North Dakota State in a 1965 bowl game, they were completely stymied on offense and lost 20-7. Florida A&M plays Tampa later on in the decade, and they lose 34-28 (Paul "Mr. Wonderful" Orndorff was Tampa's halfback). So if Grambling and Florida A&M can't beat smaller programs like NDS and Tampa, could they really have competed with the top college football programs of the 1960's?

"Stymied" looks accurate. According to this article (http://www.mmbolding.../Pecan_1965.htm):

"North Dakota State simply beat the giants of Grambling at their own game and proceeded to shove it down their mouth Giving up 34 pounds per man in the offensive line and 32 on the defense, the Bison felt no pain, while the Tigers were caught in a tailtwister."

"Tailtwister" ... yikes!

Grambling averaged 401 yards of offense that season going into the game. Against NDSU for in the Pecan Bowl, only 97. But they also caught NDSU in the second season of a very fruitful run - they would named National Champions that year and twice more in '68 and '69 in Small College NCAA - after being off the map for a while.

#8 SixtiesFan
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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:06 PM
Bryan, on 01 Oct 2014 - 2:57 PM, said:
One would think that if Night Train Lane can walk into a training camp and immediately set the NFL single-season INT record and Tom Wilson can step off an army base and set the NFL single-game rushing record, then NFL teams would be climbing over themselves to find even more black players. I'm sure its a complex subject, but I am surprised that the integration of the NFL took as long as it did.

On another note, I remember someone (might have been Buck Buchanan) said that when Grambling played Southern in the mid-1960's, it was like an NFL all-star game because there were so many future NFL stars on the field. With so many great players coming out of the black colleges in the 1960's, I always had this idea in my mind that a 1964 Grambling team would crush a 1964 Alabama team. But then I find out that Grambling played North Dakota State in a 1965 bowl game, they were completely stymied on offense and lost 20-7. Florida A&M plays Tampa later on in the decade, and they lose 34-28 (Paul "Mr. Wonderful" Orndorff was Tampa's halfback). So if Grambling and Florida A&M can't beat smaller programs like NDS and Tampa, could they really have competed with the top college football programs of the 1960's?

In 1966, all-black high schools could play all-white high schools in the Nashville Interscholastic league for the first time. The first week of the season saw a game between black Pearl High School and Montgomery Bell Academy (long known as a "rich people school"). Who won?

MBA beat Pearl 56-0. By the way, Pearl's quarterback was a fellow named Joe Gilliam. Jefferson Street Joe couldn't get a single point against an all-white team.

#9 Mark L. Ford
Administrators
Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:08 PM
BD Sullivan, on 01 Oct 2014 - 1:32 PM, said:
FWIW, the Detroit Tigers were one of the last MLB teams to integrate their team.

If I'm not mistaken, the Boston Red Sox were the very last of the baseball teams to have a black player, and it didn't happen until the early 1960s.

#10 oldecapecod 11
PFRA Member
Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:39 PM
It was 1959.
But, the event was anticipated for more than a year after the Bruins skated the first black hockey player in the NHL.

Willie Eldon O'Ree, CM, ONB (born October 15, 1935, in Fredericton, New Brunswick) is a Canadian former professional ice hockey player, known best for being the first black player in the National Hockey League. O'Ree played as a winger for the Boston Bruins. O'Ree is referred to as the "Jackie Robinson of ice hockey" due to breaking the black color barrier in the sport, and has stated publicly that he had met Jackie Robinson twice in his own younger years.
Midway through his second minor-league season with the Quebec Aces, O'Ree was called up to the Boston Bruins of the NHL to replace an injured player. O'Ree was 95% blind in his right eye due to being hit there by an errant puck two years earlier, which normally would have precluded him from playing in the NHL. However, O'Ree managed to keep it secret, and made his NHL debut with the Bruins on January 18, 1958, against the Montreal Canadiens, becoming the first black player in league history, appearing in two games that year, and came back in 1961 to play 43 games, playing with Boston centreman Don McKenney and winger Jerry Toppazzini. He scored four goals and 10 assists in his NHL career, all in 1961.
O'Ree noted that "racist remarks were much worse in the U.S. cities than in Toronto and Montreal," the two Canadian cities hosting NHL teams at the time, and that "Fans would yell, 'Go back to the South' and 'How come you're not picking cotton?' Things like that. It didn't bother me. I just wanted to be a hockey player, and if they couldn't accept that fact, that was their problem, not mine."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_O'Ree

Elijah Jerry "Pumpsie" Green (born October 27, 1933) is a former Major League Baseball backup infielder who played with the Boston Red Sox (1959–62) and New York Mets (1963). He was a switch-hitter who threw right-handed.
Green had the distinction of being the first black player to play for the Red Sox, the last pre-expansion major-league club to integrate. In his Boston tenure, he was used mostly as a pinch runner or day-off replacement for infielders Pete Runnels and Don Buddin. He made his debut on July 21, 1959, pinch-running in a 2-1 loss against the White Sox.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Pumpsie_Green

Both men are alive and frequently attend major Boston sports events.

#11 oldecapecod 11
PFRA Member
Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:57 PM
Before someone asks...
American League
Pumpsie Green Boston Red Sox July 21, 1959
Minnie Miñoso Chicago White Sox May 1, 1951
Larry Doby Cleveland Indians July 5, 1947
Ozzie Virgil, Sr. Detroit Tigers June 6, 1958
Elston Howard New York Yankees April 14, 1955
Bob Trice Philadelphia Athletics September 13, 1953
Hank Thompson St. Louis Browns July 17, 1947
Carlos Paula Washington Senators September 6, 1954
National League
Sam Jethroe Boston Braves April 18, 1950
Jackie Robinson Brooklyn Dodgers April 15, 1947
Ernie Banks Chicago Cubs September 17, 1953
Nino Escalera Cincinnati Reds April 17, 1954 and
Chuck Harmon Cincinnati Reds April 17, 1954
Monte Irvin New York Giants July 8, 1949 and
Hank Thompson New York Giants July 8, 1949
John Kennedy Philadelphia Phillies April 22, 1957
Curt Roberts* Pittsburgh Pirates April 13, 1954
Tom Alston St. Louis Cardinals April 13, 1954
*Major League Baseball recognizes Curt Roberts as the Pirates' first black player, however Carlos Bernier of Puerto Rico, also a black man, debuted on April 22, 1953.

#12 BD Sullivan
Forum Visitors
Posted 01 October 2014 - 08:35 PM
The Browns and Cardinals were two teams that had to deal in-house with racial strife in the late 1960's

#13 rhickok1109
PFRA Member
Location:New Bedford, MA
Posted 01 October 2014 - 08:46 PM
ronfitch, on 01 Oct 2014 - 3:50 PM, said:

"Stymied" looks accurate. According to this article (http://www.mmbolding.../Pecan_1965.htm):

"North Dakota State simply beat the giants of Grambling at their own game and proceeded to shove it down their mouth Giving up 34 pounds per man in the offensive line and 32 on the defense, the Bison felt no pain, while the Tigers were caught in a tailtwister."

"Tailtwister" ... yikes!

Grambling averaged 401 yards of offense that season going into the game. Against NDSU for in the Pecan Bowl, only 97. But they also caught NDSU in the second season of a very fruitful run - they would named National Champions that year and twice more in '68 and '69 in Small College NCAA - after being off the map for a while.

Ron Ehrhardt was an assistant coach at NDSU then. He was the head coach when they won the national championships in 1968 and 1969.

#14 luckyshow
Forum Visitors
Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:29 PM
<After his death, John McGraw's wife found, among his personal belongings, a list of all of the African-American players he wanted to sign over the years, but was unable to.>
From SABR: <Charlie Grant is most often recognized as the black player John McGraw tried to sneak into the majors as a Native American. Before spring training even began in the inaugural season of the American League, McGraw and Grant hooked up in the resort town of Hot Springs, Arkansas. They devised a plan that identified Grant as a Cherokee Indian in an effort to add him to the Baltimore roster and circumvent the unwritten color line barring African-Americans. This is an early instance in which men of darker skin had to pass themselves off as someone acceptable to white baseball executives and fans.>
Read a fuller account of the attempted signing and more of McGraw and his interest in "Negro"ballplayers, and of racist Comiskey, here:
http://www.history.c...-chief-tokohama

<The Giants' John McGraw saw Rube Foster pitch during Spring Training in 1901 (or so it's thought) and wanted to sign him and other black players for his team.
Since the color barrier would not be broken for another 46 years, McGraw instead asked Foster to teach his pitchers. Christy Matthewson reportedly learned his famous "fadeaway," a screwball, from Foster.>

Then, there's Bill Veeck:
<Veeck later wrote that he tried to buy the bankrupt Philadelphia Phillies after the 1942 season and intended to stock the team with black players, breaking organized baseball’s color line three years before Jackie Robinson signed with the Dodgers. In his 1962 autobiography he asserted that he had lined up financing and enlisted the promoter Abe Saperstein, owner of the Harlem Globetrotters, to help him sign Negro Leagues stars. Veeck said he informed Commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis of his plan as a courtesy, but that Landis and National League president Ford Frick thwarted him by arranging a quick sale of the Phillies to another buyer.

Most histories of baseball integration have repeated the story. It fit Veeck’s carefully burnished image as the bane of authority. But in 1998 David M. Jordan, Larry R. Gerlach, and John P. Rossi declared, “t is not true.” Although Veeck claimed his bid was “known all over the baseball world,” later researchers have found only a handful of references to it before Veeck’s autobiography, most of them based on Veeck’s statements. When Veeck signed the second black major leaguer, Larry Doby, in 1947, he did not mention that he had tried to integrate baseball five years earlier. However, the historian Jules Tygiel noted that is impossible to prove a negative, and concluded that Jordan, Gerlach, and Rossi may have been too quick with their “blanket dismissal of Veeck’s assertions.”>

#15 oldecapecod 11
PFRA Member
Posted 02 October 2014 - 04:09 PM
There are a number of great lines concerning race attributed to some pretty respected managers.

"For starting pitchers we have two Dominicans, one Italian, one Mexican, and one Japanese.
In the bullpen we have a Venezuelan, a Mexican, a guy from the United States, and a guy from St. Louis."
- Los Angeles Dodgers Manager Tommy Lasorda

A reporter asked Danny Murtagh if he realized Pittsburgh had probably fielded the first all-Negro starting lineup in major league history
He replied, "I knew they were all Pirates."
(Write it down. There are probably not ten people in America who could name them.)
1 Rennie Stennett, 2B
2 Gene Clines, CF
3 Roberto Clemente, RF
4 Willie Stargell, LF
5 Manny Sanguillen, C
6 Dave Cash, 3B
7 Al Oliver, 1B
8 Jackie Hernandez, SS
9 Dock Ellis, P

When the Yankees signed Elston Howard, their first black player, Casey Stengel said, "... I get the only one who can't run."
Howard later became the first black coach in the American League.
When Elston Howard died, New York Times columnist Red Smith wrote, "The Yankees' organization lost more class on the weekend than George Steinbrenner could buy in 10 years."