Why no cards
Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:38 am
NOTE: Those who posted here may want to do so again.
Most of the links are here but the wonderful images that were posted in this Thread were not captured.
This is just one example of the treasures that were trashed when the old forum threads were discarded.
ARCHIVE
Why no cards
Started by NWebster, Nov 02 2013 07:02 PM
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81 replies to this topic
#1 Nwebster
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Posted 02 November 2013 - 07:02 PM
I was, as I think many were, a football card collector as a kid and was always interested incertain players who didn't have any/many cards produced and why . . . what dispute did they have.
Earl Campbell was the obvious one from my youth, after a rookie card, no more.
Mel Blount started every game in 72 and 73 but had no card (Sunoco stamp aside) until 1975.
Warren Wells led the league in recieving yards and TD's and never had a non-team issue card issued (was it his legal issues).
These are just a handful.
What are some of yours, who never had a card, or should have, and why?
#2 Rupert Patrick
PFRA Member
Posted 02 November 2013 - 08:07 PM
I would say that when Football cards were produced in the 60's and 70's, and into the 80's, that they (like Basketball and Hockey cards) never sold nearly as much as Baseball Cards. I think it is a safe bet that Baseball cards sold more than all other sports cards combined. Topps Baseball card sets were 660 cards in the 70's, not including the traded sets, and virtually every starter (some rookies excepted, although many of those wound up on rookie cards with other rookies) on a MLB roster would have a card made for them. Even though Football rosters are much larger than Baseball rosters, the football card sets of the 70's usually had 528 cards in the set, which worked out to about about 18 cards per team, as there were checklist and league leader cards and other miscellaneous cards. Most of the cards were for Offensive players, QB's and Running Backs and Wide Receivers, even the second stringers. Every one of the All Pro players, regardless of position, got a card, I believe. Most if not all of the Kickers and Punters had a card also. At this point, there are maybe 5-6 cards left over on each team for Defensive players and Offensive Linemen who are not All Pro's. It seemed on most teams, the only Offensive Lineman who got a card was the Center. So that probably means that of the 11 defensive players, there might be 4-5 cards to go around, and as a result, many great players were overlooked.
I think there were also licensing issues with many of the football players, who wanted a bigger slice of the pie. With the Baseball players, I think their contract with the league stipulated that their likenesses would be used for Baseball cards, and they would receive a nominal sum and there wasn't much griping about it as I don't remember any Baseball stars of the 70's who did NOT appear on a Topps card. When it came to Football players, I think their contract was different in that Topps had to negotiate with each player individually, and many of the stars who felt the nominal fee was not enough was left out of the set. This is just a theory, but I think the contracts for Football cards were different than Baseball cards.
#3 john1967
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Posted 02 November 2013 - 08:15 PM
Joe Namath had no cards after 1973. There is a 1974 Topps proof of Namath (very rare) that was never issued. Lynn Swann had no Topps cards after 1977. Mel Blount did not have a 1981 card. As you mentioned, Earl Campbell only has cards in the 1979 Topps set. A contractual issue, in many cases, I believe is the reason.
#4 paulksandiego
PFRA Member
Posted 02 November 2013 - 08:19 PM
I stopped "collecting" cards back in the 80s, but I seem to recall at one point TOPPS discontinued issuing cards of the placekickers and punters. Does anyone know what year they stopped doing cards of the kickers?
#5 james
PFRA Member
Posted 02 November 2013 - 08:22 PM
I still collect as does my wife. I like the old stuff and collecting HoF autographed cards.My wife likes the new stuff. I started collecting in 1974 when I was 7 years old.
Joe Montana rookie was 1981 - Rookie year was 1979
Staubach rookie was in the 1972 set.
Those are the only two that come to mind at the moment.
One thing that did piss me off in the 2013 Topps Football set were the Browns and 49'ers team cards had their founding in 1950. Totally ignoring the fact that they were in the AAFC from 1946-1949.
#6 BD Sullivan
Forum Visitors
Posted 03 November 2013 - 12:49 AM
paulksandiego, on 02 Nov 2013 - 8:19 PM, said:
I stopped "collecting" cards back in the 80s, but I seem to recall at one point TOPPS discontinued issuing cards of the placekickers and punters. Does anyone know what year they stopped doing cards of the kickers?
Looks like 1978 was the last year, since I checked the website below with kickers from the 1970's and 80's, and there are none past that year:
http://www.footballcardgallery.com/
#7 JWL
PFRA Member
Posted 03 November 2013 - 01:41 AM
paulksandiego, on 02 Nov 2013 - 8:19 PM, said:
I stopped "collecting" cards back in the 80s, but I seem to recall at one point TOPPS discontinued issuing cards of the placekickers and punters. Does anyone know what year they stopped doing cards of the kickers?
Was this for one year or just a few years?
I started collecting cards in the 1980s. There were cards of kickers and punters.
#8 Citizen
Forum Visitors
Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:01 AM
John1967 is correct that Namath and Campbell stopped appearing on Topps cards because they refused to give consent in exchange for the puny stipend Topps offered players for appearing on cards. A proof of what would have been Namath's 1974 card does exist, though; it can be seen here.
#9 JWL
PFRA Member
Posted 03 November 2013 - 12:21 PM
I had/have cards of Bill Capece, Eddie Murray, Dave Jennings, one of the Mike-Mayers, Eddie Hare, Donald Igwebuike, Frank Garcia, Rafael Septien, Chris Bahr and other punters and kickers. Those were all from the 1980s.
#10 paulksandiego
PFRA Member
Posted 03 November 2013 - 06:10 PM
It was probably sometime in the 90's when they stopped the kicker/punters. I also remember having cards of Morten Andersen, Nick Lowery, Sean Landeta, Reggie Roby, etc.during the Eighties.
#11 Bob Gill
PFRA Member
Posted 03 November 2013 - 06:56 PM
I had the complete Topps set from 1962 through about 1965 -- maybe not every year, but at least a couple of them. I remember that at least once, probably 1962, the total number of cards was 198. That's for 12 teams, because this was just the NFL, so it would be 16 per team, except they also had some special cards like League Leaders and team photos and maybe others.
Topps, or somebody, also had AFL cards, and I had those too, though I don't remember if I ever managed to get them all. I'm sure I did because I remember a note on the back of the card for a guy whose name I can't remember: He was a pudgy lineman for the Jets, probably on defense -- oh, maybe his name was Plunkett. Was it Sherman Plunkett? Anyway, somebody put out AFL cards at the time too, but I'm sure it had about the same number of cards per team as the NFL set.
#12 james
PFRA Member
Posted 03 November 2013 - 07:01 PM
Topps did only AFL Football cards from 1964-1967. Philadelphia did NFL cards during that period.
#13 Nwebster
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Posted 04 November 2013 - 08:37 AM
Anyone know the details behind Topps going from doing the NFL, to ceding that to Philadelphia in the mid 60's to taking it back? Seems Philly basically went out of business and Topps took the whole ball of wax, but how did they end up with the newer vs the more established league? Seems to me the established card company would align with the established league, obviously something contractual kept that from happening.
#14 evan
PFRA Member
Posted 04 November 2013 - 08:54 AM
Luckily, with some cheap software, and in interest in football history, we can "correct" these Topps oversights. I've found it to be a fun hobby to search for historically accurate images and create football cards that never were.
I've focused on 1974 and 1975 Topps, since those are my two favorite years of my youth. So far I've made over 100 1974 Topps cards and more than 420 1975 Topps cards.
For the 1974 cards, in addition to base cards of players who were omitted from the Topps set, I've added draft pick cards and updated cards (cards of rookies or traded players, similar to the format of updated sets that Topps made for baseball). I also added "Pro Draft Game" cards, taking the theme of the Pro Draft board game which gave us vertical format cards of some players that had horizontal cards (Charlie Johnson, Norm Snead, etc.) and regular format cards of players who had All-Pro format cards (Tom Mack, Forrest Blue, etc.). So I've made vertical cards of horizontal format players (Jerry Sherk, Jack Gregory, etc.) and All-Pro players (Fran Tarkenton, Larry Csonka, Paul Warfield, Alan Page, Bruce Gossett, etc.)
In 1975, I've made draft pick cards, updated cards, and added a bunch of "1974 Highlight" cards, building on those that were in the 1975 Topps set.
It's really pretty easy to do, and a lot of fun to hunt down the right images. For instance, my 1974 Joe Gilliam card shows him in a game against Cleveland that I know was in 1973 as I've seen other pictures from that game too. My 1974 "updated" Bill Bergey card shows a Giant player in full frame (cropped out for better card proportion) wearing the Giant emblem that they stopped wearing after 1974, so Bergey on the Eagles and that Giants helmet emblem could only have been in 1974, making it perfect for my 1974 update card (Bergey was shown on the Bengals in his real-life 1974 Topps card). Other fun aspects of these cards show Bill Brown in a 1973 Monday Night game against Atlanta, Dan Fouts wearing the old white Chargers helmet for the only season of his career, a rare Mark Van Eeghen picture from the front of the Colgate media guide, James Harris wearing No. 11, and the only color photo I've ever seen of Jack Lambert at Kent State.
My 1975 card of John Cappelletti features an image that had to be from the 1974 season as that was the only time that Cappelletti and John Hadl could have been pictured together (and for just a few games at that). The Joe Namath card shows him from that great 1974 Jets-Giants game, and the other action shots have tell-tale earmarks that date their games from 1974 too, except for the Fred Dean card which is part of my 1975 update series, showing him from a 1975 game.
I've uploaded some low-res jpegs of samples of what I've done (there's a maximum upload capacity to add attachments to these posts, so they have to be low-res).
There's a ton of collectors who make "baseball cards that never were" (just google "baseball cards that never were" or "custom baseball cards" and you'll see tons of them), but there seem to be fewer who make football cards, although Bob Lemke (http://boblemke.blog...ns-updates.html) has made some, and RetroCards focuses mostly on Cowboys cards but makes some others too. http://www.thecowboy...-Starcards.html
Attached Thumbnails
#15 Bob Gill
PFRA Member
Posted 04 November 2013 - 09:47 AM
Wow! Those look just like the real thing. Do you make backs for them too, with stats and biographical information, then print them on cardboard? If so, I'd have no trouble believing they came out 40 years ago.
#16 evan
PFRA Member
Posted 04 November 2013 - 10:06 AM
Bob Gill, on 04 Nov 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:
Wow! Those look just like the real thing. Do you make backs for them too, with stats and biographical information, then print them on cardboard? If so, I'd have no trouble believing they came out 40 years ago.
Thanks Bob! I haven't done any card backs or printing, these are just for my own enjoyment really. The fun of hunting down images and seeing the card come to life is kind of neat.
I'm lucky in that the fonts for the names on the fronts of the 1974 and 1975 cards are pretty basic Arial fonts so I can replicate them. For a while I would actually try to copy and clip names from existing cards to my new cards so the name fonts were spot-on perfect, but getting them lined up could be tricky. It was fairly easy with someone like Andy Johnson to find an "Andy" and a "Johnson" from existing cards, but pulling together Haskel Stanback turned into an alignment nightmare. So I just started over with Arial fonts and went from there.
The fonts on the backs of the cards are a little bit trickier to replicate, so my hat's off to those hobbyists like Bob Lemke and RetroCards who take the time to do such stuff.
#17 Kelly1105
PFRA Member
Posted 04 November 2013 - 11:55 AM
Looking back on my collector days the Namath card was one that always stood out but then again if they did print them from 1974 to 1976 we would never had gotten cards of Al Woodall or J.J. Jones.
Taking this in the opposite direction I also seem to remember occasionally a player's card was printed and he never played for that team. One example being Roman Gabriel. Topps issued the 1978 set with him as a QB for the Rams. I think he was invited to camp by George Allen but never passed the physical or something like that. And I love the painted yellow collar in the picture. No doubt the picture was probably from 1971 or 72.
#18 slats7
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Posted 04 November 2013 - 03:23 PM
Even worse was when they used to airbrush away the helmet logos.
#19 74_75_78_79_
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Posted 04 November 2013 - 03:33 PM
Of course NFL cards were never anything like the infinitely esteemed...baseball cards, but I assumed, at least back in the day, there was a card for every player-period. I only ever really collected during the '80 season and I think it was Topps (with the thin piece of thin gum inside, of course). Like I posted before on another thread, and as the original post states, the Earl Campbell card was always the most-allusive! Kind of like 'the Ace of Spades' at that moment. NWebster, you state that his wasn't available after his rookie year and can't say that I'm a bit surprised. The ones I specifically remember getting from that season were Archie Manning, Ken Anderson ('BENGALS' still on helmet; no 'stripes' til next year), Bob Greise (in his final season), Joe Cribbs (I think Joe Ferguson too), Joe Fields, Joe Klecko, Richard Todd, Guy Morris, Mike Kenn, Steve Bartkowski, Harvey Martin, Tommy Kramer, Sammy White, Bradshaw, Franco, Swann, Donnie Shell, and Rob Carpenter and Leon Gray both, of course, from Houston, etc. Yeah, don't remember too many defensive players with cards.
#20 Nwebster
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Posted 04 November 2013 - 07:29 PM
1973 always seemed like a catch up year for me with D Linemen, Jack Gregory, Curley Culp and Coy Bacon had all been standout defenders for a number of years and finally had cards produced that season. Culp was a Pro Bowler in both 69 and 71 but no card till 73, Gregory a Pro Bowler with the Browns in 69, but not till his move to NY and Pro Bowl season with the Giants in 72, did he get a card the following year in 73, and Bacon had started every game since 69 on the Rams line but only got a card in 73 with the Chargers in one of the most horrible air-brushings ever seen. Which is the reason its such an interesting topic to me, totally get that all the QBs will be in as well as RBs and WRs but that's basically 5 players per team, so for a pro-bowl lineman not to make the cut seems odd.
Page 1 of 5
oldecapecod 11
Why no cards
Started by NWebster, Nov 02 2013 07:02 PM
Page 2 of 5
81 replies to this topic
#21 Kelly1105
PFRA Member
Posted 05 November 2013 - 12:24 PM
I agree with what your saying, maybe Bacon never got a card until he was with the Chargers because he was overshadowed by Olsen and Deacon Jones? As for Gregory I have no plausable explanation other than popularity and you would think Culp would have had a card sooner being an All-Pro and playing on a successful team. If I recall correctly I believe the better the team the more players cards were issued. I know that was true in the mid to late 1970's thru the 1980's but not sure about the sets from the early 1970's since they were smaller.
#22 evan
PFRA Member
Posted 05 November 2013 - 12:54 PM
Roman Gabriel had a "boyhood photo" card in 1973 but no regular card, and no card at all in 1974. Eric Dickerson had some gaps in his card inclusion in 1990 and 1991 I think.
The strangest exclusion I remember was Bert Jones from the 1978 set. I seem to recall an article from a long time ago where someone from Topps (might have been Sy Berger) simply said they forgot him.
I remember as I collected the cards, it was always neat to see who was designated all-pro status, since some of them made less sense than others. In the 1980 set, I remember Mike Reinfeldt, Donnie Shell and Tim Foley made the Pro Bowl for the 1979 season, and I knew Reinfeldt was one Topps AFC All-Pro safety, but I was stunned when I got a Keith Simpson card to see he was the other All-Pro safety. Any Seahawks historians (ahem, Mr. Reaser perhaps?) care to chime in on Keith Simpson's 1979 season? Just wondering how he was so anointed by Topps?
Come to think of it, Dave Pear of the Raiders was another one given All-Pro status by Topps in the 1980 set. Never figured that one out either.
#23 Bryan
Forum Visitors
Posted 05 November 2013 - 12:55 PM
evan, on 04 Nov 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:
Luckily, with some cheap software, and in interest in football history, we can "correct" these Topps oversights. I've found it to be a fun hobby to search for historically accurate images and create football cards that never were.
I've focused on 1974 and 1975 Topps, since those are my two favorite years of my youth. So far I've made over 100 1974 Topps cards and more than 420 1975 Topps cards.
For the 1974 cards, in addition to base cards of players who were omitted from the Topps set, I've added draft pick cards and updated cards (cards of rookies or traded players, similar to the format of updated sets that Topps made for baseball). I also added "Pro Draft Game" cards, taking the theme of the Pro Draft board game which gave us vertical format cards of some players that had horizontal cards (Charlie Johnson, Norm Snead, etc.) and regular format cards of players who had All-Pro format cards (Tom Mack, Forrest Blue, etc.). So I've made vertical cards of horizontal format players (Jerry Sherk, Jack Gregory, etc.) and All-Pro players (Fran Tarkenton, Larry Csonka, Paul Warfield, Alan Page, Bruce Gossett, etc.)
In 1975, I've made draft pick cards, updated cards, and added a bunch of "1974 Highlight" cards, building on those that were in the 1975 Topps set.
It's really pretty easy to do, and a lot of fun to hunt down the right images. For instance, my 1974 Joe Gilliam card shows him in a game against Cleveland that I know was in 1973 as I've seen other pictures from that game too. My 1974 "updated" Bill Bergey card shows a Giant player in full frame (cropped out for better card proportion) wearing the Giant emblem that they stopped wearing after 1974, so Bergey on the Eagles and that Giants helmet emblem could only have been in 1974, making it perfect for my 1974 update card (Bergey was shown on the Bengals in his real-life 1974 Topps card). Other fun aspects of these cards show Bill Brown in a 1973 Monday Night game against Atlanta, Dan Fouts wearing the old white Chargers helmet for the only season of his career, a rare Mark Van Eeghen picture from the front of the Colgate media guide, James Harris wearing No. 11, and the only color photo I've ever seen of Jack Lambert at Kent State.
My 1975 card of John Cappelletti features an image that had to be from the 1974 season as that was the only time that Cappelletti and John Hadl could have been pictured together (and for just a few games at that). The Joe Namath card shows him from that great 1974 Jets-Giants game, and the other action shots have tell-tale earmarks that date their games from 1974 too, except for the Fred Dean card which is part of my 1975 update series, showing him from a 1975 game.
I've uploaded some low-res jpegs of samples of what I've done (there's a maximum upload capacity to add attachments to these posts, so they have to be low-res).
There's a ton of collectors who make "baseball cards that never were" (just google "baseball cards that never were" or "custom baseball cards" and you'll see tons of them), but there seem to be fewer who make football cards, although Bob Lemke (http://boblemke.blog...ns-updates.html) has made some, and RetroCards focuses mostly on Cowboys cards but makes some others too. http://www.thecowboy...-Starcards.html
Those cards look incredible. Especially like the rookies in college uniforms.
On a side note, I used to think that Paul Hofer was one of the best RBs in the NFL, because the Niners 1979 Team Leaders card had him rushing for 1263 yards. Don't know how they came up with that number, but it sounds big.
#24 JWL
PFRA Member
Posted 05 November 2013 - 01:22 PM
Evan,
I asked about Simpson on this forum a few years ago because I have that card. I would do a search myself bit my phone battery is dying.
#25 BD Sullivan
Forum Visitors
Posted 05 November 2013 - 01:22 PM
Looks like the sudden burst of inclusions in 1973 was based more on another expansion of the card set. When Topps regained rights in 1968, they had a set of 219 cards. From 1969-71, it jumped to 263. In '72, it leaped to 351, then leaped again to 528 in '73.
From one team's perspective (the Browns), here was the breakdown of individual player cards from 1956-75 (1965-67 were the Philadelphia sets)
9: 1956
10: 1958, 1967-68, 1970-72
11: 1963, 1966
12: 1957, 1964-65, 1969
14: 1959
17: 1975
18: 1973-74
#26 Teo
PFRA Member
Posted 05 November 2013 - 05:49 PM
I have the 1977 Mexican Topps set and I wonder why the left out Chargers Pro Bowl T Russ Washington (they included teammate C Ralph Perretta), 49ers Pro Bowl LB Dave Washington and specially, Steelers WR John Stallworth (they included Frank Lewis). All the other 1976 Pro Bowlers were in the set.
#27 BD Sullivan
Forum Visitors
Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:37 PM
Regarding the Browns in the 1962 card set: one of the players with a card was rookie Ernie Davis, who obviously never played. Supposedly, that card is worth $250.
#28 Jay Z
Forum Visitors
Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:41 PM
Kelly1105, on 05 Nov 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:
I agree with what your saying, maybe Bacon never got a card until he was with the Chargers because he was overshadowed by Olsen and Deacon Jones? As for Gregory I have no plausable explanation other than popularity and you would think Culp would have had a card sooner being an All-Pro and playing on a successful team. If I recall correctly I believe the better the team the more players cards were issued. I know that was true in the mid to late 1970's thru the 1980's but not sure about the sets from the early 1970's since they were smaller.
Olson and Deacon Jones, and the fact that there were only 10 players per team. They weren't going to do three defensive linemen with 10 players. When they went up to 17-18 they could do most of the starters, though there were some curious inclusions and omissions even then.
#29 paulksandiego
PFRA Member
Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:46 PM
evan, on 05 Nov 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:
Roman Gabriel had a "boyhood photo" card in 1973 but no regular card, and no card at all in 1974. Eric Dickerson had some gaps in his card inclusion in 1990 and 1991 I think.
The strangest exclusion I remember was Bert Jones from the 1978 set. I seem to recall an article from a long time ago where someone from Topps (might have been Sy Berger) simply said they forgot him.
I remember as I collected the cards, it was always neat to see who was designated all-pro status, since some of them made less sense than others. In the 1980 set, I remember Mike Reinfeldt, Donnie Shell and Tim Foley made the Pro Bowl for the 1979 season, and I knew Reinfeldt was one Topps AFC All-Pro safety, but I was stunned when I got a Keith Simpson card to see he was the other All-Pro safety. Any Seahawks historians (ahem, Mr. Reaser perhaps?) care to chime in on Keith Simpson's 1979 season? Just wondering how he was so anointed by Topps?
Come to think of it, Dave Pear of the Raiders was another one given All-Pro status by Topps in the 1980 set. Never figured that one out either.
Keith Simpson and Dave Pear were both named All-AFC by the New York Daily News. Maybe they used those teams for the selections?
#30 Moran
PFRA Member
Posted 05 November 2013 - 10:14 PM
Why is there no 1958 Paul Hornung card?
Why is there no Red Grange in the 1935 National Chicle set?
If anyone is interested I did a couple of pages on early NY Giants football cards on the Giants Historical Wike http://history.giant... Football Cards
#31 Moran
PFRA Member
Posted 05 November 2013 - 11:58 PM
This is a great reference site for football cards. http://www.footballcardgallery.com
#32 james
PFRA Member
Posted 06 November 2013 - 09:12 AM
Moran, on 05 Nov 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:
Why is there no 1958 Paul Hornung card?
Why is there no Red Grange in the 1935 National Chicle set?
If anyone is interested I did a couple of pages on early NY Giants football cards on the Giants Historical Wike http://history.giant... Football Cards
Thanks so much for sharing. I really like what you have done.
#33 Kelly1105
PFRA Member
Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:36 PM
evan, on 05 Nov 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:
Roman Gabriel had a "boyhood photo" card in 1973 but no regular card, and no card at all in 1974. Eric Dickerson had some gaps in his card inclusion in 1990 and 1991 I think.
I always thought that was odd to. Gabriel had a real good year in 1973 his first with the Eagles but instead Topps puts out a John Reaves card in 1974.and with Topps history you cant tell me they couldn't have painted on an Eagles uniform on Gabriel for 1973 set.
Speaking of John Reaves I found it curious he had a 1976 card as a Bengal. He did start and win one game but seems like a stretch to have him on a card.
#34 Reaser
PFRA Member
Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:47 PM
evan, on 04 Nov 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:
I've found it to be a fun hobby to search for historically accurate images and create football cards that never were.
Those look great, nice work.
#35 3243
Forum Visitors
Posted 08 November 2013 - 03:10 AM
I heard that Earl Campbell specifically asked that no cards be made of him after his rookie year because he did not want kids to spend all of their money on his cards.
#36 james
PFRA Member
Posted 08 November 2013 - 09:24 AM
3243, on 08 Nov 2013 - 03:10 AM, said:
I heard that Earl Campbell specifically asked that no cards be made of him after his rookie year because he did not want kids to spend all of their money on his cards.
I remember hearing something like that back then. I had forgotten about this...
#37 evan
PFRA Member
Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:40 AM
3243, on 08 Nov 2013 - 03:10 AM, said:
I heard that Earl Campbell specifically asked that no cards be made of him after his rookie year because he did not want kids to spend all of their money on his cards.
Another artist's take on the "missing" Earl Campbell cards are featured here: http://www.sportscar...80-through-1986. I knew the guy who did these, he did a great job with the fonts. He did card backs and everything. Apparently Earl liked them so much he put them on his web page: http://www.earlcampb...ry-FBCards.html
#38 Nwebster
Forum Visitors
Posted 08 November 2013 - 06:34 PM
evan, on 08 Nov 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:
Another artist's take on the "missing" Earl Campbell cards are featured here: http://www.sportscar...80-through-1986. I knew the guy who did these, he did a great job with the fonts. He did card backs and everything. Apparently Earl liked them so much he put them on his web page: http://www.earlcampb...ry-FBCards.html
I love the way the Oilers cards show him in action but the Saints cards have him sitting on the sideline. He was done at that point, but it still made me sad to pull a Hokie Gajan card out of my pack of 85 cards, rather than an Earl Campbell. I also have the 1972 Sunoco Stamp book with all the stamps, a lot of firsts in that as they have basically all the position players for every team represented. Another really cool set if only for its inclusiveness was the McDonalds set (think it was 85) it had a few guys who came over from the USFL who didn't show up in a topps card till the following year, Hershel, Reggie, etc.
#39 JWL
PFRA Member
Posted 08 November 2013 - 07:33 PM
evan, on 08 Nov 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:
Another artist's take on the "missing" Earl Campbell cards are featured here: http://www.sportscar...80-through-1986. I knew the guy who did these, he did a great job with the fonts. He did card backs and everything. Apparently Earl liked them so much he put them on his web page: http://www.earlcampb...ry-FBCards.html
The 1980 and 1981 cards would look better with no logos on the helmets, but for sure it was nice work by him to create those cards.
#40 Jay Z
Forum Visitors
Posted 09 November 2013 - 12:41 AM
Kelly1105, on 06 Nov 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:
Speaking of John Reaves I found it curious he had a 1976 card as a Bengal. He did start and win one game but seems like a stretch to have him on a card.
That was the first season they began to vary the number of players per team, instead of having approximately the same number per team. The Bengals were ruled one of the popular teams, and got 24 cards, probably as many as Topps ever did of a team.
For offensive line, they had the center, Bob Johnson, and the two tackles, Rufus Mayes and Vern Holland. One of the guards, Howard Fest, went to Tampa Bay in the expansion draft, and he had a Tampa Bay card. Other guard, Dave Lapham, did not have a card. Lapham started for 8 years and never had a card. He did have a card when he later played in the USFL.
They had a card of the TE, Bob Trumpy, AND his backup, Bruce Coslet. Bengals had 3 WR that played a lot, Isaac Curtis, Charlie Joiner, and Chip Myers. They all had cards. Joiner didn't play in 1976 with the Bengals, he was traded for Coy Bacon.
Ken Anderson and Reaves, the QBs, had cards. They had two RBs, Boobie Clark (1975 leading rusher) and Essex Johnson. Johnson was odd because he'd been a star at one time, but only the 4th leading rusher in 1975, behind Stan Fritts and Lenvill Elliott. Plus Johnson got traded to Tampa Bay before the next season. Fritts never had a card; Elliott had some in other years.
For defensive linemen they had Ron Carpenter, Sherman White, and Ken Johnson. The other DT, Bob Brown, wasn't here, though he'd had several cards before.
For linebackers, they had all of the starters, Al Beauchamp, Jim LeClair, and Ron Pritchard.
For defensive backs, they had all four starters - Lemar Parrish, Ken Riley, Tommy Casanova, and Bernard Jackson. Plus a backup, Marvin Cobb, who intercepted 4 passes, has a card. Also, another backup, Lyle Blackwood, was taken in the expansion draft and had a card with the Seahawks.
Dave Green did both the kicking and punting for the 1975 Bengals and he had a card. Green was waived to the Buccaneers before the 1976 season.
So 26 1975 Bengals had a card in the 1976 set. They missed three starters, Lapham, Fritts, and Brown. But they had five backups, Coslet, Joiner/Myers, Essex Johnson, Reaves, and Cobb. And they only needed one for the kicker/punter since the same guy did both.
The worst QB card in the 1976 set was likely Terry Hanratty, who didn't even throw a pass in 1975. He also didn't play with the Steelers in 1976, also making his way to Tampa Bay.
Page 2 of 5
oldecapecod 11
Most of the links are here but the wonderful images that were posted in this Thread were not captured.
This is just one example of the treasures that were trashed when the old forum threads were discarded.
ARCHIVE
Why no cards
Started by NWebster, Nov 02 2013 07:02 PM
Page 1 of 5
81 replies to this topic
#1 Nwebster
Forum Visitors
Posted 02 November 2013 - 07:02 PM
I was, as I think many were, a football card collector as a kid and was always interested incertain players who didn't have any/many cards produced and why . . . what dispute did they have.
Earl Campbell was the obvious one from my youth, after a rookie card, no more.
Mel Blount started every game in 72 and 73 but had no card (Sunoco stamp aside) until 1975.
Warren Wells led the league in recieving yards and TD's and never had a non-team issue card issued (was it his legal issues).
These are just a handful.
What are some of yours, who never had a card, or should have, and why?
#2 Rupert Patrick
PFRA Member
Posted 02 November 2013 - 08:07 PM
I would say that when Football cards were produced in the 60's and 70's, and into the 80's, that they (like Basketball and Hockey cards) never sold nearly as much as Baseball Cards. I think it is a safe bet that Baseball cards sold more than all other sports cards combined. Topps Baseball card sets were 660 cards in the 70's, not including the traded sets, and virtually every starter (some rookies excepted, although many of those wound up on rookie cards with other rookies) on a MLB roster would have a card made for them. Even though Football rosters are much larger than Baseball rosters, the football card sets of the 70's usually had 528 cards in the set, which worked out to about about 18 cards per team, as there were checklist and league leader cards and other miscellaneous cards. Most of the cards were for Offensive players, QB's and Running Backs and Wide Receivers, even the second stringers. Every one of the All Pro players, regardless of position, got a card, I believe. Most if not all of the Kickers and Punters had a card also. At this point, there are maybe 5-6 cards left over on each team for Defensive players and Offensive Linemen who are not All Pro's. It seemed on most teams, the only Offensive Lineman who got a card was the Center. So that probably means that of the 11 defensive players, there might be 4-5 cards to go around, and as a result, many great players were overlooked.
I think there were also licensing issues with many of the football players, who wanted a bigger slice of the pie. With the Baseball players, I think their contract with the league stipulated that their likenesses would be used for Baseball cards, and they would receive a nominal sum and there wasn't much griping about it as I don't remember any Baseball stars of the 70's who did NOT appear on a Topps card. When it came to Football players, I think their contract was different in that Topps had to negotiate with each player individually, and many of the stars who felt the nominal fee was not enough was left out of the set. This is just a theory, but I think the contracts for Football cards were different than Baseball cards.
#3 john1967
Forum Visitors
Posted 02 November 2013 - 08:15 PM
Joe Namath had no cards after 1973. There is a 1974 Topps proof of Namath (very rare) that was never issued. Lynn Swann had no Topps cards after 1977. Mel Blount did not have a 1981 card. As you mentioned, Earl Campbell only has cards in the 1979 Topps set. A contractual issue, in many cases, I believe is the reason.
#4 paulksandiego
PFRA Member
Posted 02 November 2013 - 08:19 PM
I stopped "collecting" cards back in the 80s, but I seem to recall at one point TOPPS discontinued issuing cards of the placekickers and punters. Does anyone know what year they stopped doing cards of the kickers?
#5 james
PFRA Member
Posted 02 November 2013 - 08:22 PM
I still collect as does my wife. I like the old stuff and collecting HoF autographed cards.My wife likes the new stuff. I started collecting in 1974 when I was 7 years old.
Joe Montana rookie was 1981 - Rookie year was 1979
Staubach rookie was in the 1972 set.
Those are the only two that come to mind at the moment.
One thing that did piss me off in the 2013 Topps Football set were the Browns and 49'ers team cards had their founding in 1950. Totally ignoring the fact that they were in the AAFC from 1946-1949.
#6 BD Sullivan
Forum Visitors
Posted 03 November 2013 - 12:49 AM
paulksandiego, on 02 Nov 2013 - 8:19 PM, said:
I stopped "collecting" cards back in the 80s, but I seem to recall at one point TOPPS discontinued issuing cards of the placekickers and punters. Does anyone know what year they stopped doing cards of the kickers?
Looks like 1978 was the last year, since I checked the website below with kickers from the 1970's and 80's, and there are none past that year:
http://www.footballcardgallery.com/
#7 JWL
PFRA Member
Posted 03 November 2013 - 01:41 AM
paulksandiego, on 02 Nov 2013 - 8:19 PM, said:
I stopped "collecting" cards back in the 80s, but I seem to recall at one point TOPPS discontinued issuing cards of the placekickers and punters. Does anyone know what year they stopped doing cards of the kickers?
Was this for one year or just a few years?
I started collecting cards in the 1980s. There were cards of kickers and punters.
#8 Citizen
Forum Visitors
Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:01 AM
John1967 is correct that Namath and Campbell stopped appearing on Topps cards because they refused to give consent in exchange for the puny stipend Topps offered players for appearing on cards. A proof of what would have been Namath's 1974 card does exist, though; it can be seen here.
#9 JWL
PFRA Member
Posted 03 November 2013 - 12:21 PM
I had/have cards of Bill Capece, Eddie Murray, Dave Jennings, one of the Mike-Mayers, Eddie Hare, Donald Igwebuike, Frank Garcia, Rafael Septien, Chris Bahr and other punters and kickers. Those were all from the 1980s.
#10 paulksandiego
PFRA Member
Posted 03 November 2013 - 06:10 PM
It was probably sometime in the 90's when they stopped the kicker/punters. I also remember having cards of Morten Andersen, Nick Lowery, Sean Landeta, Reggie Roby, etc.during the Eighties.
#11 Bob Gill
PFRA Member
Posted 03 November 2013 - 06:56 PM
I had the complete Topps set from 1962 through about 1965 -- maybe not every year, but at least a couple of them. I remember that at least once, probably 1962, the total number of cards was 198. That's for 12 teams, because this was just the NFL, so it would be 16 per team, except they also had some special cards like League Leaders and team photos and maybe others.
Topps, or somebody, also had AFL cards, and I had those too, though I don't remember if I ever managed to get them all. I'm sure I did because I remember a note on the back of the card for a guy whose name I can't remember: He was a pudgy lineman for the Jets, probably on defense -- oh, maybe his name was Plunkett. Was it Sherman Plunkett? Anyway, somebody put out AFL cards at the time too, but I'm sure it had about the same number of cards per team as the NFL set.
#12 james
PFRA Member
Posted 03 November 2013 - 07:01 PM
Topps did only AFL Football cards from 1964-1967. Philadelphia did NFL cards during that period.
#13 Nwebster
Forum Visitors
Posted 04 November 2013 - 08:37 AM
Anyone know the details behind Topps going from doing the NFL, to ceding that to Philadelphia in the mid 60's to taking it back? Seems Philly basically went out of business and Topps took the whole ball of wax, but how did they end up with the newer vs the more established league? Seems to me the established card company would align with the established league, obviously something contractual kept that from happening.
#14 evan
PFRA Member
Posted 04 November 2013 - 08:54 AM
Luckily, with some cheap software, and in interest in football history, we can "correct" these Topps oversights. I've found it to be a fun hobby to search for historically accurate images and create football cards that never were.
I've focused on 1974 and 1975 Topps, since those are my two favorite years of my youth. So far I've made over 100 1974 Topps cards and more than 420 1975 Topps cards.
For the 1974 cards, in addition to base cards of players who were omitted from the Topps set, I've added draft pick cards and updated cards (cards of rookies or traded players, similar to the format of updated sets that Topps made for baseball). I also added "Pro Draft Game" cards, taking the theme of the Pro Draft board game which gave us vertical format cards of some players that had horizontal cards (Charlie Johnson, Norm Snead, etc.) and regular format cards of players who had All-Pro format cards (Tom Mack, Forrest Blue, etc.). So I've made vertical cards of horizontal format players (Jerry Sherk, Jack Gregory, etc.) and All-Pro players (Fran Tarkenton, Larry Csonka, Paul Warfield, Alan Page, Bruce Gossett, etc.)
In 1975, I've made draft pick cards, updated cards, and added a bunch of "1974 Highlight" cards, building on those that were in the 1975 Topps set.
It's really pretty easy to do, and a lot of fun to hunt down the right images. For instance, my 1974 Joe Gilliam card shows him in a game against Cleveland that I know was in 1973 as I've seen other pictures from that game too. My 1974 "updated" Bill Bergey card shows a Giant player in full frame (cropped out for better card proportion) wearing the Giant emblem that they stopped wearing after 1974, so Bergey on the Eagles and that Giants helmet emblem could only have been in 1974, making it perfect for my 1974 update card (Bergey was shown on the Bengals in his real-life 1974 Topps card). Other fun aspects of these cards show Bill Brown in a 1973 Monday Night game against Atlanta, Dan Fouts wearing the old white Chargers helmet for the only season of his career, a rare Mark Van Eeghen picture from the front of the Colgate media guide, James Harris wearing No. 11, and the only color photo I've ever seen of Jack Lambert at Kent State.
My 1975 card of John Cappelletti features an image that had to be from the 1974 season as that was the only time that Cappelletti and John Hadl could have been pictured together (and for just a few games at that). The Joe Namath card shows him from that great 1974 Jets-Giants game, and the other action shots have tell-tale earmarks that date their games from 1974 too, except for the Fred Dean card which is part of my 1975 update series, showing him from a 1975 game.
I've uploaded some low-res jpegs of samples of what I've done (there's a maximum upload capacity to add attachments to these posts, so they have to be low-res).
There's a ton of collectors who make "baseball cards that never were" (just google "baseball cards that never were" or "custom baseball cards" and you'll see tons of them), but there seem to be fewer who make football cards, although Bob Lemke (http://boblemke.blog...ns-updates.html) has made some, and RetroCards focuses mostly on Cowboys cards but makes some others too. http://www.thecowboy...-Starcards.html
Attached Thumbnails
#15 Bob Gill
PFRA Member
Posted 04 November 2013 - 09:47 AM
Wow! Those look just like the real thing. Do you make backs for them too, with stats and biographical information, then print them on cardboard? If so, I'd have no trouble believing they came out 40 years ago.
#16 evan
PFRA Member
Posted 04 November 2013 - 10:06 AM
Bob Gill, on 04 Nov 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:
Wow! Those look just like the real thing. Do you make backs for them too, with stats and biographical information, then print them on cardboard? If so, I'd have no trouble believing they came out 40 years ago.
Thanks Bob! I haven't done any card backs or printing, these are just for my own enjoyment really. The fun of hunting down images and seeing the card come to life is kind of neat.
I'm lucky in that the fonts for the names on the fronts of the 1974 and 1975 cards are pretty basic Arial fonts so I can replicate them. For a while I would actually try to copy and clip names from existing cards to my new cards so the name fonts were spot-on perfect, but getting them lined up could be tricky. It was fairly easy with someone like Andy Johnson to find an "Andy" and a "Johnson" from existing cards, but pulling together Haskel Stanback turned into an alignment nightmare. So I just started over with Arial fonts and went from there.
The fonts on the backs of the cards are a little bit trickier to replicate, so my hat's off to those hobbyists like Bob Lemke and RetroCards who take the time to do such stuff.
#17 Kelly1105
PFRA Member
Posted 04 November 2013 - 11:55 AM
Looking back on my collector days the Namath card was one that always stood out but then again if they did print them from 1974 to 1976 we would never had gotten cards of Al Woodall or J.J. Jones.
Taking this in the opposite direction I also seem to remember occasionally a player's card was printed and he never played for that team. One example being Roman Gabriel. Topps issued the 1978 set with him as a QB for the Rams. I think he was invited to camp by George Allen but never passed the physical or something like that. And I love the painted yellow collar in the picture. No doubt the picture was probably from 1971 or 72.
#18 slats7
Forum Visitors
Posted 04 November 2013 - 03:23 PM
Even worse was when they used to airbrush away the helmet logos.
#19 74_75_78_79_
Forum Visitors
Posted 04 November 2013 - 03:33 PM
Of course NFL cards were never anything like the infinitely esteemed...baseball cards, but I assumed, at least back in the day, there was a card for every player-period. I only ever really collected during the '80 season and I think it was Topps (with the thin piece of thin gum inside, of course). Like I posted before on another thread, and as the original post states, the Earl Campbell card was always the most-allusive! Kind of like 'the Ace of Spades' at that moment. NWebster, you state that his wasn't available after his rookie year and can't say that I'm a bit surprised. The ones I specifically remember getting from that season were Archie Manning, Ken Anderson ('BENGALS' still on helmet; no 'stripes' til next year), Bob Greise (in his final season), Joe Cribbs (I think Joe Ferguson too), Joe Fields, Joe Klecko, Richard Todd, Guy Morris, Mike Kenn, Steve Bartkowski, Harvey Martin, Tommy Kramer, Sammy White, Bradshaw, Franco, Swann, Donnie Shell, and Rob Carpenter and Leon Gray both, of course, from Houston, etc. Yeah, don't remember too many defensive players with cards.
#20 Nwebster
Forum Visitors
Posted 04 November 2013 - 07:29 PM
1973 always seemed like a catch up year for me with D Linemen, Jack Gregory, Curley Culp and Coy Bacon had all been standout defenders for a number of years and finally had cards produced that season. Culp was a Pro Bowler in both 69 and 71 but no card till 73, Gregory a Pro Bowler with the Browns in 69, but not till his move to NY and Pro Bowl season with the Giants in 72, did he get a card the following year in 73, and Bacon had started every game since 69 on the Rams line but only got a card in 73 with the Chargers in one of the most horrible air-brushings ever seen. Which is the reason its such an interesting topic to me, totally get that all the QBs will be in as well as RBs and WRs but that's basically 5 players per team, so for a pro-bowl lineman not to make the cut seems odd.
Page 1 of 5
oldecapecod 11
Why no cards
Started by NWebster, Nov 02 2013 07:02 PM
Page 2 of 5
81 replies to this topic
#21 Kelly1105
PFRA Member
Posted 05 November 2013 - 12:24 PM
I agree with what your saying, maybe Bacon never got a card until he was with the Chargers because he was overshadowed by Olsen and Deacon Jones? As for Gregory I have no plausable explanation other than popularity and you would think Culp would have had a card sooner being an All-Pro and playing on a successful team. If I recall correctly I believe the better the team the more players cards were issued. I know that was true in the mid to late 1970's thru the 1980's but not sure about the sets from the early 1970's since they were smaller.
#22 evan
PFRA Member
Posted 05 November 2013 - 12:54 PM
Roman Gabriel had a "boyhood photo" card in 1973 but no regular card, and no card at all in 1974. Eric Dickerson had some gaps in his card inclusion in 1990 and 1991 I think.
The strangest exclusion I remember was Bert Jones from the 1978 set. I seem to recall an article from a long time ago where someone from Topps (might have been Sy Berger) simply said they forgot him.
I remember as I collected the cards, it was always neat to see who was designated all-pro status, since some of them made less sense than others. In the 1980 set, I remember Mike Reinfeldt, Donnie Shell and Tim Foley made the Pro Bowl for the 1979 season, and I knew Reinfeldt was one Topps AFC All-Pro safety, but I was stunned when I got a Keith Simpson card to see he was the other All-Pro safety. Any Seahawks historians (ahem, Mr. Reaser perhaps?) care to chime in on Keith Simpson's 1979 season? Just wondering how he was so anointed by Topps?
Come to think of it, Dave Pear of the Raiders was another one given All-Pro status by Topps in the 1980 set. Never figured that one out either.
#23 Bryan
Forum Visitors
Posted 05 November 2013 - 12:55 PM
evan, on 04 Nov 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:
Luckily, with some cheap software, and in interest in football history, we can "correct" these Topps oversights. I've found it to be a fun hobby to search for historically accurate images and create football cards that never were.
I've focused on 1974 and 1975 Topps, since those are my two favorite years of my youth. So far I've made over 100 1974 Topps cards and more than 420 1975 Topps cards.
For the 1974 cards, in addition to base cards of players who were omitted from the Topps set, I've added draft pick cards and updated cards (cards of rookies or traded players, similar to the format of updated sets that Topps made for baseball). I also added "Pro Draft Game" cards, taking the theme of the Pro Draft board game which gave us vertical format cards of some players that had horizontal cards (Charlie Johnson, Norm Snead, etc.) and regular format cards of players who had All-Pro format cards (Tom Mack, Forrest Blue, etc.). So I've made vertical cards of horizontal format players (Jerry Sherk, Jack Gregory, etc.) and All-Pro players (Fran Tarkenton, Larry Csonka, Paul Warfield, Alan Page, Bruce Gossett, etc.)
In 1975, I've made draft pick cards, updated cards, and added a bunch of "1974 Highlight" cards, building on those that were in the 1975 Topps set.
It's really pretty easy to do, and a lot of fun to hunt down the right images. For instance, my 1974 Joe Gilliam card shows him in a game against Cleveland that I know was in 1973 as I've seen other pictures from that game too. My 1974 "updated" Bill Bergey card shows a Giant player in full frame (cropped out for better card proportion) wearing the Giant emblem that they stopped wearing after 1974, so Bergey on the Eagles and that Giants helmet emblem could only have been in 1974, making it perfect for my 1974 update card (Bergey was shown on the Bengals in his real-life 1974 Topps card). Other fun aspects of these cards show Bill Brown in a 1973 Monday Night game against Atlanta, Dan Fouts wearing the old white Chargers helmet for the only season of his career, a rare Mark Van Eeghen picture from the front of the Colgate media guide, James Harris wearing No. 11, and the only color photo I've ever seen of Jack Lambert at Kent State.
My 1975 card of John Cappelletti features an image that had to be from the 1974 season as that was the only time that Cappelletti and John Hadl could have been pictured together (and for just a few games at that). The Joe Namath card shows him from that great 1974 Jets-Giants game, and the other action shots have tell-tale earmarks that date their games from 1974 too, except for the Fred Dean card which is part of my 1975 update series, showing him from a 1975 game.
I've uploaded some low-res jpegs of samples of what I've done (there's a maximum upload capacity to add attachments to these posts, so they have to be low-res).
There's a ton of collectors who make "baseball cards that never were" (just google "baseball cards that never were" or "custom baseball cards" and you'll see tons of them), but there seem to be fewer who make football cards, although Bob Lemke (http://boblemke.blog...ns-updates.html) has made some, and RetroCards focuses mostly on Cowboys cards but makes some others too. http://www.thecowboy...-Starcards.html
Those cards look incredible. Especially like the rookies in college uniforms.
On a side note, I used to think that Paul Hofer was one of the best RBs in the NFL, because the Niners 1979 Team Leaders card had him rushing for 1263 yards. Don't know how they came up with that number, but it sounds big.
#24 JWL
PFRA Member
Posted 05 November 2013 - 01:22 PM
Evan,
I asked about Simpson on this forum a few years ago because I have that card. I would do a search myself bit my phone battery is dying.
#25 BD Sullivan
Forum Visitors
Posted 05 November 2013 - 01:22 PM
Looks like the sudden burst of inclusions in 1973 was based more on another expansion of the card set. When Topps regained rights in 1968, they had a set of 219 cards. From 1969-71, it jumped to 263. In '72, it leaped to 351, then leaped again to 528 in '73.
From one team's perspective (the Browns), here was the breakdown of individual player cards from 1956-75 (1965-67 were the Philadelphia sets)
9: 1956
10: 1958, 1967-68, 1970-72
11: 1963, 1966
12: 1957, 1964-65, 1969
14: 1959
17: 1975
18: 1973-74
#26 Teo
PFRA Member
Posted 05 November 2013 - 05:49 PM
I have the 1977 Mexican Topps set and I wonder why the left out Chargers Pro Bowl T Russ Washington (they included teammate C Ralph Perretta), 49ers Pro Bowl LB Dave Washington and specially, Steelers WR John Stallworth (they included Frank Lewis). All the other 1976 Pro Bowlers were in the set.
#27 BD Sullivan
Forum Visitors
Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:37 PM
Regarding the Browns in the 1962 card set: one of the players with a card was rookie Ernie Davis, who obviously never played. Supposedly, that card is worth $250.
#28 Jay Z
Forum Visitors
Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:41 PM
Kelly1105, on 05 Nov 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:
I agree with what your saying, maybe Bacon never got a card until he was with the Chargers because he was overshadowed by Olsen and Deacon Jones? As for Gregory I have no plausable explanation other than popularity and you would think Culp would have had a card sooner being an All-Pro and playing on a successful team. If I recall correctly I believe the better the team the more players cards were issued. I know that was true in the mid to late 1970's thru the 1980's but not sure about the sets from the early 1970's since they were smaller.
Olson and Deacon Jones, and the fact that there were only 10 players per team. They weren't going to do three defensive linemen with 10 players. When they went up to 17-18 they could do most of the starters, though there were some curious inclusions and omissions even then.
#29 paulksandiego
PFRA Member
Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:46 PM
evan, on 05 Nov 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:
Roman Gabriel had a "boyhood photo" card in 1973 but no regular card, and no card at all in 1974. Eric Dickerson had some gaps in his card inclusion in 1990 and 1991 I think.
The strangest exclusion I remember was Bert Jones from the 1978 set. I seem to recall an article from a long time ago where someone from Topps (might have been Sy Berger) simply said they forgot him.
I remember as I collected the cards, it was always neat to see who was designated all-pro status, since some of them made less sense than others. In the 1980 set, I remember Mike Reinfeldt, Donnie Shell and Tim Foley made the Pro Bowl for the 1979 season, and I knew Reinfeldt was one Topps AFC All-Pro safety, but I was stunned when I got a Keith Simpson card to see he was the other All-Pro safety. Any Seahawks historians (ahem, Mr. Reaser perhaps?) care to chime in on Keith Simpson's 1979 season? Just wondering how he was so anointed by Topps?
Come to think of it, Dave Pear of the Raiders was another one given All-Pro status by Topps in the 1980 set. Never figured that one out either.
Keith Simpson and Dave Pear were both named All-AFC by the New York Daily News. Maybe they used those teams for the selections?
#30 Moran
PFRA Member
Posted 05 November 2013 - 10:14 PM
Why is there no 1958 Paul Hornung card?
Why is there no Red Grange in the 1935 National Chicle set?
If anyone is interested I did a couple of pages on early NY Giants football cards on the Giants Historical Wike http://history.giant... Football Cards
#31 Moran
PFRA Member
Posted 05 November 2013 - 11:58 PM
This is a great reference site for football cards. http://www.footballcardgallery.com
#32 james
PFRA Member
Posted 06 November 2013 - 09:12 AM
Moran, on 05 Nov 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:
Why is there no 1958 Paul Hornung card?
Why is there no Red Grange in the 1935 National Chicle set?
If anyone is interested I did a couple of pages on early NY Giants football cards on the Giants Historical Wike http://history.giant... Football Cards
Thanks so much for sharing. I really like what you have done.
#33 Kelly1105
PFRA Member
Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:36 PM
evan, on 05 Nov 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:
Roman Gabriel had a "boyhood photo" card in 1973 but no regular card, and no card at all in 1974. Eric Dickerson had some gaps in his card inclusion in 1990 and 1991 I think.
I always thought that was odd to. Gabriel had a real good year in 1973 his first with the Eagles but instead Topps puts out a John Reaves card in 1974.and with Topps history you cant tell me they couldn't have painted on an Eagles uniform on Gabriel for 1973 set.
Speaking of John Reaves I found it curious he had a 1976 card as a Bengal. He did start and win one game but seems like a stretch to have him on a card.
#34 Reaser
PFRA Member
Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:47 PM
evan, on 04 Nov 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:
I've found it to be a fun hobby to search for historically accurate images and create football cards that never were.
Those look great, nice work.
#35 3243
Forum Visitors
Posted 08 November 2013 - 03:10 AM
I heard that Earl Campbell specifically asked that no cards be made of him after his rookie year because he did not want kids to spend all of their money on his cards.
#36 james
PFRA Member
Posted 08 November 2013 - 09:24 AM
3243, on 08 Nov 2013 - 03:10 AM, said:
I heard that Earl Campbell specifically asked that no cards be made of him after his rookie year because he did not want kids to spend all of their money on his cards.
I remember hearing something like that back then. I had forgotten about this...
#37 evan
PFRA Member
Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:40 AM
3243, on 08 Nov 2013 - 03:10 AM, said:
I heard that Earl Campbell specifically asked that no cards be made of him after his rookie year because he did not want kids to spend all of their money on his cards.
Another artist's take on the "missing" Earl Campbell cards are featured here: http://www.sportscar...80-through-1986. I knew the guy who did these, he did a great job with the fonts. He did card backs and everything. Apparently Earl liked them so much he put them on his web page: http://www.earlcampb...ry-FBCards.html
#38 Nwebster
Forum Visitors
Posted 08 November 2013 - 06:34 PM
evan, on 08 Nov 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:
Another artist's take on the "missing" Earl Campbell cards are featured here: http://www.sportscar...80-through-1986. I knew the guy who did these, he did a great job with the fonts. He did card backs and everything. Apparently Earl liked them so much he put them on his web page: http://www.earlcampb...ry-FBCards.html
I love the way the Oilers cards show him in action but the Saints cards have him sitting on the sideline. He was done at that point, but it still made me sad to pull a Hokie Gajan card out of my pack of 85 cards, rather than an Earl Campbell. I also have the 1972 Sunoco Stamp book with all the stamps, a lot of firsts in that as they have basically all the position players for every team represented. Another really cool set if only for its inclusiveness was the McDonalds set (think it was 85) it had a few guys who came over from the USFL who didn't show up in a topps card till the following year, Hershel, Reggie, etc.
#39 JWL
PFRA Member
Posted 08 November 2013 - 07:33 PM
evan, on 08 Nov 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:
Another artist's take on the "missing" Earl Campbell cards are featured here: http://www.sportscar...80-through-1986. I knew the guy who did these, he did a great job with the fonts. He did card backs and everything. Apparently Earl liked them so much he put them on his web page: http://www.earlcampb...ry-FBCards.html
The 1980 and 1981 cards would look better with no logos on the helmets, but for sure it was nice work by him to create those cards.
#40 Jay Z
Forum Visitors
Posted 09 November 2013 - 12:41 AM
Kelly1105, on 06 Nov 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:
Speaking of John Reaves I found it curious he had a 1976 card as a Bengal. He did start and win one game but seems like a stretch to have him on a card.
That was the first season they began to vary the number of players per team, instead of having approximately the same number per team. The Bengals were ruled one of the popular teams, and got 24 cards, probably as many as Topps ever did of a team.
For offensive line, they had the center, Bob Johnson, and the two tackles, Rufus Mayes and Vern Holland. One of the guards, Howard Fest, went to Tampa Bay in the expansion draft, and he had a Tampa Bay card. Other guard, Dave Lapham, did not have a card. Lapham started for 8 years and never had a card. He did have a card when he later played in the USFL.
They had a card of the TE, Bob Trumpy, AND his backup, Bruce Coslet. Bengals had 3 WR that played a lot, Isaac Curtis, Charlie Joiner, and Chip Myers. They all had cards. Joiner didn't play in 1976 with the Bengals, he was traded for Coy Bacon.
Ken Anderson and Reaves, the QBs, had cards. They had two RBs, Boobie Clark (1975 leading rusher) and Essex Johnson. Johnson was odd because he'd been a star at one time, but only the 4th leading rusher in 1975, behind Stan Fritts and Lenvill Elliott. Plus Johnson got traded to Tampa Bay before the next season. Fritts never had a card; Elliott had some in other years.
For defensive linemen they had Ron Carpenter, Sherman White, and Ken Johnson. The other DT, Bob Brown, wasn't here, though he'd had several cards before.
For linebackers, they had all of the starters, Al Beauchamp, Jim LeClair, and Ron Pritchard.
For defensive backs, they had all four starters - Lemar Parrish, Ken Riley, Tommy Casanova, and Bernard Jackson. Plus a backup, Marvin Cobb, who intercepted 4 passes, has a card. Also, another backup, Lyle Blackwood, was taken in the expansion draft and had a card with the Seahawks.
Dave Green did both the kicking and punting for the 1975 Bengals and he had a card. Green was waived to the Buccaneers before the 1976 season.
So 26 1975 Bengals had a card in the 1976 set. They missed three starters, Lapham, Fritts, and Brown. But they had five backups, Coslet, Joiner/Myers, Essex Johnson, Reaves, and Cobb. And they only needed one for the kicker/punter since the same guy did both.
The worst QB card in the 1976 set was likely Terry Hanratty, who didn't even throw a pass in 1975. He also didn't play with the Steelers in 1976, also making his way to Tampa Bay.
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