Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

As a bitter Jets fan that was really raised on those teams, I really feel as though they deserved a "turn" in the big game only to watch teams like the Dolphins, Broncos, and Patriots waltz in on years I thought we could(similar situation with Cleveland, still haven't gotten over those missed opportunities of the 80's). A lot of the wounds were self inflicted. Other times they flat out choked. Those teams were colorful and exciting. You had the sack exchange with Klecko and Gastineau...Toon and Walker, McNeil and Hector.

4 years stick out in particular, 1981, 1982, 1985, and 1986. One of those years I really think we should've been in the Super Bowl

1981 was when the franchise really came out of hibernation. They had an insane 66 sacks. A very solid running game (albeit by a huge committee) Todd cuts down on his pick and suddenly looks like a good QB. Then in the playoffs Bruce Harper fumbles the opening kickoff, Buffalo runs it in for a TD...the snowball starts rolling and the Jets could never quite catch up. Todd has Bobby Jones open for a TD in the waning seconds but underthrows it and it's intercepted. I would've given them a good shot in Cinci the next week. But who knows...

1982 is the one that sticks in the craw of most 40+ year old Jets fans. You had Freeman McNeil really come into his own (1400 yard pace that year rushing, 300 yard pace receiving) Todd continues to look like a respectable QB. The defense was stout even though the sack exchange was having an off year. We beat Cinci and Oakland on the road in the playoffs. Then the infamous Mud Bowl. Jets fans are utterly convinced we would beat Miami had the field been covered...but I'm not so sure. Miami had our number that year. So under more ideal circumstances I could totally see the Jets still losing only 14-10 instead of 14-0. The Miami D was terrific that year. But had we won I'm pretty convinced we would have beaten Washington in the Super Bowl

1985 the Jets fielded a good defense and Ken Obrien looked like a budding star QB. Unfortunately they ran into a NE team that was only slightly inferior but had a little destiny's darlings magic going on. They upset them in a very listless Jets performance. I think they have a pretty good chance of being the one's slaughtered by Chicago in the Super Bowl had they shown up vs New England. The Raiders, Dolphins, Pats, and Jets were so evenly matched that year

as an aside, I also remember some grumbling from places like Denver when the Browns cruised in at 8-8 as division champs and Denver was left out at 11-5.

1986 is the killer. Up 20-10 on Cleveland and the Browns would've had a 3rd and 26 had Gastineau not speared Kosar. Suddenly the wheels come off and the Jets were pretty lucky not to lose in regulation. What really killed them was on the drive that Cleveland tied it, the Jets punter originally pinned Cleveland way back inside the 5...but the Jets were called for some phantom holding penalty and had to re kick, and Cleveland got to start on the 30 or so. I'm utterly convinced they would've beat Denver had they not imploded vs Cleveland. They had the team speed on D to chase down Elway. Their deep game would've killed Denver with Walker/Toon. Could've set up a nice Jets/Giants Super Bowl...I have no read on that game. But tough to see them beating that 86 Giants squad. But I don't think they would've rampaged over us

I also agree that 1982 was probably their best shot, that they would have beaten Washington in the Super Bowl. I developed a system for predicting the winners of postseason games based on information available before the fact, and it is 70 percent accurate in picking the correct team. In 1982, it predicted the correct winner in every playoff game except for the Jets Dolphins AFC Championship, where it picked the Jets to win. And in a hypothetical Super Bowl XVII between the Jets and Washington, it predicted a New York win by two points. I think the departure of Walt Michaels following the 1982 season prevented the Jets from being in the thick of the playoff hunt in 1983 and 1984; had Michaels stayed with the Jets, I think 1983 might have been their year.

1986 is a different story. Were they playing over their heads when they started 10-1? Paul Maguire thought so and stated on the NBC pregame show that he thought they could lose their five remaining games. Had the Jets continued to play well, and went 14-2 or 15-1, and had home field advantage in the AFC playoffs, I think they would have beat Cleveland or Denver at the Meadowlands, although they would have had to reschedule one of the Championship Games to the Saturday before. In a Jets-Giants Super Bowl, it's hard to say, but I think the Giants tough defense would have curtailed O'Brien, and the Giants ball control game would have turned it into a lower scoring game than most expected not unlike Super Bowl XXV, and in that case, I think the Giants would have won. If I have to win one game and could choose any coach and his staff to win it, I think it's hard to go against Parcells, with Belichick as his DC.

Rupert Patrick wrote:I also agree that 1982 was probably their best shot, that they would have beaten Washington in the Super Bowl. I developed a system for predicting the winners of postseason games based on information available before the fact, and it is 70 percent accurate in picking the correct team. In 1982, it predicted the correct winner in every playoff game except for the Jets Dolphins AFC Championship, where it picked the Jets to win. And in a hypothetical Super Bowl XVII between the Jets and Washington, it predicted a New York win by two points. I think the departure of Walt Michaels following the 1982 season prevented the Jets from being in the thick of the playoff hunt in 1983 and 1984; had Michaels stayed with the Jets, I think 1983 might have been their year.

1986 is a different story. Were they playing over their heads when they started 10-1? Paul Maguire thought so and stated on the NBC pregame show that he thought they could lose their five remaining games. Had the Jets continued to play well, and went 14-2 or 15-1, and had home field advantage in the AFC playoffs, I think they would have beat Cleveland or Denver at the Meadowlands, although they would have had to reschedule one of the Championship Games to the Saturday before. In a Jets-Giants Super Bowl, it's hard to say, but I think the Giants tough defense would have curtailed O'Brien, and the Giants ball control game would have turned it into a lower scoring game than most expected not unlike Super Bowl XXV, and in that case, I think the Giants would have won. If I have to win one game and could choose any coach and his staff to win it, I think it's hard to go against Parcells, with Belichick as his DC.

Walt Michaels was a good coach but a loose cannon. Lots of conspiracy theories abound as to why he resigned after the Mud Bowl (some of which say he was really fired but allowed to resign to save face)

The Jets were in the playoff hunt in 83...7-7 but lost their last two to finish 7-9. 84 they were 6-2 and looked poised to make it, but choked as was the M.O. of those Walton teams.

As an aside, I'd say the one thing that bugged me about those Parcells staffs was their penchant to come unglued and lose some really awful big games. The Flipper Anderson game, the loss to the Jets at the end of the 88 season that knocked them out of the playoffs. The 1997 finale against Detroit (Leon Johnson option pass) the 1998 championship game. Parcells had some really ugly moments. I'd take them if I was an underdog(for instance if ANYBODY was beating the 85 Bears I think Parcells/Belichick could've done it on their best day, that divisional playoff was only 7-0 Bears into the 3rd)...but otherwise I want the Walsh staff

1982 definitely. They were coming off a huge win, beating Oakland in the divisional playoff. That's when the Dolphins "accidentally" forgot to put the tarp on the Orange Bowl field the night before a huge rainstorm, with Miami then shutting out the suddenly impotent Jets.

As far as Michaels' breakdown, he had spent the previous few months visiting his dying mother. She died right as the playoffs were starting, so Michaels was undoubtedly on edge for the next three weeks. In addition, they wanted to hold on to Joe Walton, who had become the hot assistant.

The one thing that the Jets lacked in 82 was the sure handed #2 to complement Walker (and he eventually arrived in Toon) but the 82 Jets were a downfield team. They needed more intermediate options. Lam Jones and Wesley Walker betrayed Todd quite a bit with the drops. Wesley Walker could not get off the line of scrimmage in that 82 game. He was in quicksand.

Was going to start a new thread but revived this older one instead ...

The Jets in the 1982/83 AFC Championship game ... What happened?

John Turney brought up the excellent website yourteamcheats.com, which brought up the Dolphins involvement in "Mudgate" during this huge Orange Bowl game. Of course Don Shula and Joe Robbie allowed for the field to be soaked and flooded with water because the field didnt have a tarpaulin placed over it during the heavy rains. Dave Anderson, the famous Jets beat writer, was incredulous in his column about the game, stating if the Jets were required to have and use them, so should the Dolphins. The Dolphins didnt even HAVE one, as they were advised by their grass field turf experts to allow it to drain of water. Shula himself, claimed it was up to the city of Miami, who owned the field. Brinksmanship? Cheating, or more crazy theories on why the Jets were shut out of this game?

The bottom line is this ... both teams were affected by the flooding conditions, with both QBs having bad throwing games with eight total interceptions. Richard Todd had five of those, with Lam Jones and Dolphin AJ Duhe, his leading receivers. Where was deep threat Wesley Walker? Catching one pass for zero yards. Dave Anderson was critical of Walkers' game but was even more critical of coordinator Joe Walton and the Jets coaching staff for targeting Walker only FOUR times throughout the game, with one pass out of bounds and another one no where near him. In his article, Anderson talked about Walkers' jersey being as clean after the game as it was before. Walton stated, that the Dolphins were double covering him and the team wanted to get the ball to Lam Jones on single coverage but four targets?

Anderson had written how effective Walker had been against the Bengals and Raiders in the playoffs, not to mention these same Dolphins in the past but did Bill Arnsparger the defensive coordinator, really have the Dolphins playing that great of passing defense or did Walton and the coaches sabotage their leading playmaker?

To the winner go the spoils, as the Dolphins ground game kept the Jets offense off the field with their defense shutting down another potent passing attack before allowing the Redskins to run over them in the SB but for the Jets, were other factors at play? Older Jets fans I have talked to and discussed the game with are bitter, believing that Jets ownership wanted to move away from any connection to the Weeb Ewbank championship past by getting rid of Walt Michaels, and this game --and gameplan--proved it, where Michaels was allowed to resign following it, while Joe Walton got to take over the team. I didnt buy it, believing this was their best chance to win another SB but they felt that Jets ownership wanted a new coach to be ready for the eventual move to the Giants' Meadowlands Stadium and any connection to Michaels and the 1969 SB championship past, would be a thorn in their side, especially with NY, Jets fans.

Some Jets fans naturally believe the game was fixed ... especially after pulling betting upsets against the Bengals and Raiders on the road. To hell with a third upset in Miami, especially coached by rules committee chairman Don Shula, who the Raiders believed got special treatment from game officials as well. Could the Jets coaches, even Walt Michaels, who lost his mother recently, have conspired to throw this game, rather than game officials or players? I truly hope not but have questions myself.

As for great players on that Jets team, including Powell, Gastineau, Klecko and especially Wesley Walker, a tough defeat and though Klecko has made the HOF, you wonder how much it has affected the candidacy of the other players who have at least HOVG cases, if nothing else ...

The same type of thing happened in the previous AFC Championship game between the Bengals and Chargers...I think it was called "Doorgate" or something creative like that. Whenever the Chargers had the ball going into the wind, the stadium doors would be opened up. Whenever the Bengals had the ball going into the wind, the stadium doors would be closed. That said, the Bengals destroyed the Chargers in the regular season, so not really sure "Doorgate" decided the game.

Kind of the same thing with the 82 AFC championship...the Dolphins beat the Jets three times that year. The Jets didn't even attempt a FG in the AFC championship or score a point. Most of Todd's INTs took place at the line of scrimmage. I don't know how or why anyone would think the game was fixed, or that the Jets would have to have 'thrown' the game in order to lose. The Dolphins were better.

In regards to Wesley Walker getting only 4 targets, I'd say that Joe Walton was well-known for overly complicating things. Michaels had Todd run a simple offense....look deep for Walker, if he's covered, dump it off to Harper. It was effective, as the Jets won games and were actually 3rd in points in 1982. Walton takes over as HC in 83, puts in his own offense, and a Jet team loaded with high draft picks completely falls apart. The offense falls to 19th as Todd suffers through a 26 INT/42 sack season.

The story I heard about Michaels was that management wanted him to come in to discuss his contract after the 82 season ended, and Michaels thought he had done well enough so that he didn't need to discuss his contract with management, so he didn't show up to the meeting. That was the final straw for ownership.

Thanks Bryan ... one of the reasons I believe Arnsparger should be in the HOF as an assistant--along with Shaughnessy--was his ability to design defenses to stop the pass. In the 1982/83 Super Bowl Tournament, the Dolphins held receivers Stanley Morgan, Wes Chandler, Charlie Joiner, Kellen Winslow and Wesley Walker to five total catches, incredible.

I was wrong to write and assume Dave Anderson questioned the Jets usage of Wesley Walker. I basically pieced it together with his writing and statements from Joe Walton and Wesley Walker, in regards to Walkers impact on the game. It was Walker who claimed he was only targetted four times, not Anderson. Anderson did sound suspicious however, on the Jets lack of protestations about the field conditions and the Dolphins poor handling of the situation. Anderson also questioned why a receiver--Walker--couldnt have a pattern advantage over slipping, reacting DBs but like sheajets suggested, Walker had trouble getting off the line of scrimmage*


I had also heard about miscommunications between Michaels and Jets management but fans I talked to also felt Michaels was simply burnt out from coaching, especially after losing his mother.

*Edited

Brian wolf wrote:Thanks Bryan ... one of the reasons I believe Arnsparger should be in the HOF as an assistant--along with Shaughnessy--was his ability to design defenses to stop the pass.

I would wholeheartedly endorse Arnsparger for the HOF. I think he was the best D-coordinator in NFL history, bar none (or as Don Maynard said, "bar anyone").

Bryan wrote:

Brian wolf wrote:Thanks Bryan ... one of the reasons I believe Arnsparger should be in the HOF as an assistant--along with Shaughnessy--was his ability to design defenses to stop the pass.

I would wholeheartedly endorse Arnsparger for the HOF. I think he was the best D-coordinator in NFL history, bar none (or as Don Maynard said, "bar anyone").

His departure from Miami after the 1983 season was a big reason why the team declined by the mid-80's.