Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

What if Cookie Gilchrist signed with the Browns?

Paul Brown screwed that one up ... Not only would Gilchrist be in the HOF but Jim Brown would have probably been taken by the Eagles or Colts in the 1957 draft? Had Cookie been with the Browns, the Giants might not have won the division in 1956?

In the crazy replacement games strike year of 1987, the Jets and Chiefs ended up finishing last in the two five-team AFC divisions. So, as a result, they had to play against each other twice the next season.

In Week 5 of the 1988 season (at Giants Stadium), the Jets were up 17-3 in the fourth quarter after a short Johnny Hector TD plunge. However, the Chiefs got two late TD passes by DeBerg (to Carlos Carson and Emile Harry) to force OT (it ended in a tie).

In Week 14 (at Arrowhead), the Jets were up 34-24 in the fourth quarter after another Hector short plunge TD. However, they gave up two late TD runs, and lost 38-34.

Those losses had massive implications.

For the Chiefs, the meaningless comebacks cost them the #1 pick and Troy Aikman. Wonder if they get to the bowl in the 90's with a stable QB.

For the Jets, the tie and the loss cost them a WC spot. The next year, they went 4-12, and Joe Walton was fired.

If they make the playoffs in 1988, Walton probably makes it until at least 1990, and maybe that affects everything that happened the next ten years (with the Carroll firing, the Kotite saga, the Tuna, and Belichick's resignation).

Also, this affects the Steelers. If Walton stays in Gotham, maybe they don't fire Tom Moore (in reality, they did, and they replaced him with Walton), and they have more continuity the next year on offense (which probably results in a Central Division title). If they make the playoffs in 90 (and maybe 91), does Noll stay a bit longer? And, if he does, where does Cowher go?

Great scenario 7D ...

With the Chiefs, they were just trying to get fans into Arrowhead in 1988 and DeBerg was trying to keep his job so there were no meaningless comebacks. Yes, they lost out on Aikman but could have tried to get Young from SF or Favre later on, in the draft. They drafted a QB in the second round in 1989 but he didn't pan out. DeBerg himself took the team to the playoffs in 1990 and played well, losing out to a Marino-led comeback. The Jets might have made the playoffs, but still went through a bad 89' season that cost Walton his job. The team just didn't respond to him.

Brian wolf wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 1:55 pm Great scenario 7D ...

With the Chiefs, they were just trying to get fans into Arrowhead in 1988 and Deberg was trying to keep his job so there were no meaningless comebacks. Yes, they lost out on Aikman but could have tried to get Young from SF or Favre later on, in the draft. They drafted a QB in the second round in 1989 but he didn't pan out. Deberg himself took the team to the playoffs in 1990 and played well, losing out to a Marino-led comeback.

In 1991, Mel Kiper had Favre mocked to the Chiefs in the first round. Carl Peterson probably laughed, but who's laughing now?

Also, they drafted QB's in Round 2 in 1989 and 92 (Elkins and Matt Blundin), and didn't seem to put much effort in developing them. They kept trying to get the veteran 49er QB, and that didn't quite work out (then, in 01, the Ravens ignorantly signed one of those ex-49ers instead of keeping Dilfer, and it didn't work out, either).

NFL fans still have to wonder why nobody offered enough to pry Young from SF but maybe plenty tried and either he said no, or SF management said no ... Montana himself wondered why Young didn't go and start somewhere else but I believe Steve was determined to succeed him just to justify/show up Bill Walsh. Other than Unitas/Morrall, Griese/Morrall and Waterfield/Van Brocklin, there were no other better examples of teams having a starter A and B, rather than simply a backup.

Brian wolf wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 8:39 pm NFL fans still have to wonder why nobody offered enough to pry Young from SF but maybe plenty tried and either he said no, or SF management said no ... Montana himself wondered why Young didn't go and start somewhere else but I believe Steve was determined to succeed him just to justify/show up Bill Walsh. Other than Unitas/Morrall, Griese/Morrall and Waterfield/Van Brocklin, there were no other better examples of teams having a starter A and B, rather than simply a backup.

I guess they weren't both starters but Van Brocklin/Jurgensen on the 1960 Eagles weren't too bad a pair.
I'm sure others can think of other great pairs (although the ones you mentioned were superlative).

I don't recall any real animosity in the Young/Walsh relationship.
Yes, Young wanted to start. And yes, sometimes Walsh stood in the way of that.
But I don't think wanting to "show up" Walsh was a prime motivator for Young... most athletes are driven by the desire to be their best and win... the article below is kind of interesting...

https://sports.yahoo.com/best-thing-ste ... 56205.html

Good call JuggarnautJ, but Young did feel that Walsh respectfully mislead him, and neither understood how mentally strong and competitive Montana was about keeping his job and standard of play.

Most athletes are determined to start at all costs--even if going to another team-- but Young believed most teams weren't structured to succeed like the 49ers and luckily, at that time, he had an owner with deep pockets who was willing to pay him alot, to bide his time until he actually took the job from Joe. That's why I felt Young wanted to prove or justify Walsh's belief in him, though four years--would have been five had Joe not been injured in 1991--would make many people, question his true competitive nature.

Going back to 7D ... what if the Chiefs had drafted Brett Favre in 1991? Could it have worked? I believe so, since Favre would have been much further from Kiln, than a southern party town like Atlanta. Maybe Martyball could work better for Favre's talents, especially play-action, than the chuck-and-duck offense, yet the Chiefs didn't have receivers like Rison or Haynes. Birden, Barnett and Davis dropped enough passes with Montana as QB.

Due to DeBerg having a winning season at QB in 1989, the Chiefs couldn't go for an arm talent like Jeff George in 1990 but you have to wonder if Peterson and Schotty could have harnessed him quicker than the Indy coaches? One of the biggest busts in NFL history, compared to his talent.

Brian wolf wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 8:39 pm NFL fans still have to wonder why nobody offered enough to pry Young from SF but maybe plenty tried and either he said no, or SF management said no ... Montana himself wondered why Young didn't go and start somewhere else but I believe Steve was determined to succeed him just to justify/show up Bill Walsh. Other than Unitas/Morrall, Griese/Morrall and Waterfield/Van Brocklin, there were no other better examples of teams having a starter A and B, rather than simply a backup.

In 1988, Walsh tried to trade Montana (I think this was in Glenn Dickey's book) to the Chargers. He asked if the assistants were on board, and they weren't, so he scrapped the idea.

JuggernautJ wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 10:12 pm I guess they weren't both starters but Van Brocklin/Jurgensen on the 1960 Eagles weren't too bad a pair.
I'm sure others can think of other great pairs (although the ones you mentioned were superlative).

I don't recall any real animosity in the Young/Walsh relationship.
Yes, Young wanted to start. And yes, sometimes Walsh stood in the way of that.
But I don't think wanting to "show up" Walsh was a prime motivator for Young... most athletes are driven by the desire to be their best and win... the article below is kind of interesting...

https://sports.yahoo.com/best-thing-ste ... 56205.html

Kilmer/Jurgensen and Morton/Staubach are nice combos