lietzaro24 wrote:Based on what I'm seeing in my spreadsheet vs with Oszuscik has listed...
Redskins 1981-1989, Packers 1960-1992, Oilers 1978-1979 all definitely need to be added to what we have in the members only section.
49ers, Bears, Broncos, Chargers, Cowboys (except 12/2/1979 vs NYG), Dolphins, Raiders and Steelers are about as complete as they can be for the time periods Oszuscik has listed.
The highlights of the most wanted list seem to be...
Bears (pre-1982), Redskins (pre-1981), Oilers (pre-1978), Saints, Falcons and Cardinals (pre-1983), all Bengals/Chiefs matchups pre-1988 games, several Chiefs 1984-1987 games, Bengals/Oilers matchups pre-1983, lots of Bengals games (pre-1982), Giants and Vikings (pre-1981), three 1980 Chargers games (vs. NYG, at Cin, at Wash) and some pre-1980 Colts games.
The Redskins (pre-1981) gamebooks may be worth pursuing, I'll look into that. For the Oilers, CraigRye may be able to help. He shared gamebooks with me from the Luv Ya Blue era. I think the Bears might be a dead end. Just a couple of weeks ago I traded emails with their communications department and this was their response regarding gamebooks:
"I was just checking through some of our old gamebooks and unfortunately we don’t have any additional game books from the 60’s and 70’s that we haven’t already passed along. Most of our hard-copied archives are from the 1980s and beyond, and even those aren’t in the best shape or fully accounted for."
I found an old email that Rupert had sent to me in February of 2020 on the current state of his gamebook search. I think anyone interested in reaching out for gamebooks will find this helpful, though a coordinated effort on our part may be more effective. Here's what Rupert had to say:
The Lions were very receptive when I explained out game book database, and that we were working with many teams. He gave us everything in the Lions archives from 1948-88, although it took me a couple weeks to process it all.
First of all, most teams aren't very responsive during the regular season. The fact the Packers, Vikings, Titans and Redskins are working with us during the season is surprising.
I'll quickly run down all of the teams:
Cardinals - The Cardinals game books are bound in books, which are difficult to scan. They want to convert their archives to digital but it would take too long to convert them all. I think I've got a deal worked out with them to trade all the Cardinals game books we have in the PFRA archives (approximately 800 game books) in exchange for them scanning the game books and other play by play documents we don't already have and giving us pdfs of them. Their game books go back into the 50's and they may have scores heets or play-by-play that goes back to the 30's, we don't really know at this time. This way, we both get a set of complete pdfs of the Cardinals archives. PFRA management signed off on this deal, and the Cardinals are considering the deal and in the off-season we'll get together to discuss it in more detail. My guess is that they'll agree to it as these game books have to be backed up in case of a catastrophe; they cannot be replaced. If they do agree to scan their archives, we've already got a PFRA member who lives in the area who has told me he would volunteer to assist them if needed.
Falcons - Documents are in storage as of May
Ravens - We have all their game books; no need to contact them.
Bills - At the 2018 PFRA meeting in Buffalo I got a couple CD's from one of the Bills PR guys with all of their game books thru 2010 or so, including pre-season games.
Panthers - We have all their game books; no need to contact them.
Bears - They have been helpful with game book requests.
Bengals - They have helped sporadically in the off-season with game book requests.
Browns - They have not been terribly helpful with game book requests, although we have Browns game books from 1961 to present, there are a half dozen or so from the 60's that I don't have. Also, do they have any game books pre-1961? I don't know if anybody at PFRA has been to the Browns archives?
Cowboys - All their game books are or were online, but a few were missing and I tried to contact the Cowboys to see if maybe they were in the archives and they inadvertently forgot to scan them and put them online, but they never got back to me and I tried several different people in the organization.
Broncos - All of their game books have been online since 2004 or so, they were the first team to put their game books online.
Lions - Already covered.
Packers - On course to have all the Packers game books thru 1960 by March, and then start working my way back from there. Once I get to 1960, I will get with their PR guy and find out exactly what is left in their archives and how far it goes back.
Texans - We have all their game books; no need to contact them.
Colts - They were very helpful with game book requests until they started focusing on digitizing their archives. I am pretty sure their game books go all the way back to the Baltimore Colts of the AAFC. I am looking forward to the day their game books go online.
Jaguars - We have all their game books; no need to contact them.
Chiefs - They were very helpful, they generally took very good care of their game books, and I went thru and reviewed all Chiefs game books a second time and any that I thought could possibly be improved, I worked with the Chiefs to get replacements, and they helped us with everything.
Chargers - Their archives are in storage until their stadium opens next year
Rams - Ditto, but I think I've got everything I need from them.
Dolphins - All of their game books are online, no need to contact them.
Vikings - They are very helpful with game books requests; by February I should have all Vikings game books from their archives, but I will review them a second time and if there are any that I think I might be able to get an improved copy from them, I will work with them to get those additional game books. The Vikings are slowly but surely putting all of their game books online at their team website; but I'll have all my game books from them before they get all of their game books online.
Patriots - We've already got all of the Patriots game books at the PFRA site, probably from Pete Palmer as he was the Patriots statistician for about 30 years. I have contacted them a couple times to try to get better copies of game books that were poor quality, but the ones I got from them were identical to the ones we already had.
Saints - We've gotten game books from them sporadically during the off-season.
Giants - I did get game books from them once, but it was like getting teeth pulled, and after that they never responded again.
Jets - They were the one AFL team who was not receptive at all to game book requests. At least I did get game books from the Chargers once.
Raiders - They have been very helpful; their PR guy used to be a PFRA member and appreciated what I was trying to do and said the Raiders would help however they could. I went thru the Raiders game books and got the best upgrades I could. I am waiting for the last batch of game books from the Raiders.
Eagles - We have their game books since 1956 but they are not in the best condition, and they never responded to my email requests after i tried to contact about five different people.
Steelers - Apparently they have no game books before 1969 (somebody went to their archives and all they have was from 1969 and later). I tried to contact them a couple times but never heard back
49ers - They put all their game books online but I found a couple that were missing. I contacted their PR guy and sure enough, he emailed me the game book for that game. I'm going back thru the other few game books for the 49ers that weren't on their site to see if they are in their archives.
Seahawks - All of their game books are online, no need to contact them.
Titans - The Titans have been helpful about game books requests for Oilers games. We should have all the Oilers games by January.
Bucs - We have all of their game books, but I am contacting them about the upgrades to those two Packers game books.
Redskins - They have been helpful with game book requests. I should have all of the 1960-2018 Redskins game books by April or May, and then start working my way backward from there. The Redskins are also probably going to put their game books online in the off-season, and if they do that, I'll stop requesting game books.
As far as teams who are not responsive? Falcons, Browns, Cowboys, Giants, Jets, Eagles, Steelers, are the big ones. If the Falcons would open up their archives I'm three hours northeast of Atlanta and would make a trip there; all I need is the 1966-77 game books and about a dozen game books from 1978-99.
It might come down to putting out the call to PFRA volunteers in the NYC area who would want to contact the Jets and Giants about visiting their archives in the off-season and getting the game books we need, or getting PFRA volunteers in Cincinnati or New Orleans to do likewise with the Bengals or Saints. Same with Chicago and Green Bay, as it would be much easier than getting the game books piecemeal from the Bears and Packers. Sometimes the historians have to get out there into the vaults of history and get their hands dirty.